Dipping Oil

[Magic]

Lemon oil seems to be popular for dipping finished work. I've got the lemon juice but don't know what to mix it with and what proportions. I'd like to try it. Anyone got a recipe please? Magic

[ncsealeveler]

Steve Good at scrollsawworkshop has a video using lemon oil.Tony

[GrayBeard Phil]

Originally Posted by Magic

Lemon oil seems to be popular for dipping finished work. I've got the lemon juice but don't know what to mix it with and what proportions. I'd like to try it. Anyone got a recipe please? Magic

Magic:

Lemon oil has very little to do with lemon juice.

Lemon oil is a liquid finishing / household product sold in glass or plastic bottles next to other household furniture polishing supplies. In USA most common brand name is Old English which I believe is made by Reckitt and Benckiser. Here is a link to their web site:
Reckitt Benckiser Professional - Our Products
Note: click on the MSDS PDF link and you can read the main ingredient is a petroleum distillate which is described as "light mineral oil." Except this product is "harmful or fatal if swallowed" as opposed to the mineral oil you get in your local drug store.

There are other brands of Lemon Oil furniture polish, they will have their own unique formulation, but Lemon Oil is just an oil based furniture polish with lemon scent. Lemon oil is scented to make it attractive for home use.

Boiled Linseed Oil (BLO) finish has a traditional application for full sized furniture that goes something like:
Apply twice in one day
Once a day for a week
Once a week for a month
Once a month for a year
Once a year for life.

Lemon Oil furniture polish, works fine for complying with the last two lines. However, my two books on finishing, which includes Bob Flexner's book, are emphatically disdainful and strongly biased against any use of Lemon Oil furniture products at all. Period.

It's main use seems to be to put a temporary shine and temporarily hide surface scratches and blemishes on large pieces of furniture when company comes over to the house for a night of entertainment. (note the time in the previous statement, night; not bright daylight!) A few days later as the product cures (dries out) the scratches and blemishes re-appear, and the shine is gone.

You might be better off just dipping in BLO. BLO does not have a fresh lemon sent. Feel free to experiment, however, with Lemon Oil. You might just prove the finishing elitist (me included, I should add) are wrong. Who knows, Lemon Oil might be just the perfect finish for your scroll saw work.

Phil

[Janette]

Phil...I'm looking for a liquid finish to use on my intarsia. I've tried Danish oil and it works ok but sometimes it leaches back up on some woods. Any suggestions on what I should try. I like a nice satin finish. Currently I use Bartley's gel. I love the look but not the work! I work at Woodcraft and have seen Tried and True, Waterlox and a whole assortment of other stuff. Any thoughts?

[jim_mex]

Hi Janette -

although its a fair bit pricier than Boiled Linseed Oil you might want to try natural Tung Oil - not the advertised Tung Oil finish, which often has nothing to do with the natural oil.

I managed to source some down here in Mexico a month back and I'm very pleased with the way it brings out the grain and colour of wood and it seems less messy to work with than BLO and seems to cure quicker.

You can wipe, brush or flood it on or dip it. Apply the first coat in excess to make sure it really soaks in . Then leave for about 15 mins before taking off all the excess with a cloth and a soft bristle brush (for nooks and crannies).

Leave your piece in an airy space to cure. Tung oil , as BLO, cures over time via a chemical reaction with oxygen, therefore its important that if you coat the backside/base of pieces you leave them to cure supported on thin pins or similar so the air can get around the base.

You can apply new coats about every 4 or 5 days to build up the finish but make sure to give a very light fine sanding between applications. I find 3 to 4 coats seem to be enough

Once fully cured, ie dry and non sticky to the touch, buff up the surface of the coated piece with a lint free cloth to give a dull sheen - I use white cotton T-shirt fabric.

When fully cured tung oil coated pieces will take most other finishes on top if you need a tougher surface - note that neither tung or linseed oil on their own give a particularly tough cured finish. I've been getting good results using a satin sheen water based acrylic resin finish usually used for wooden floors

Ref the price - I think its relative as a lot goes a long way and it really does seem to enhance the piece

Final note - all oils will age slightly yellowish over time . You can compensate a little for this by using acrylic based finishes on top which, unlike traditional varnishes, should stay crystal clear. Obviously using a traditional varnish or finish the chances are you will exaggerate this yellowing effect

Ok - thats my lot. My advice is it can't do any harm to try!

[GrayBeard Phil]

Janette, I would love to help you out. However, I am a strong advocate of basic BLO (which Danish Oil is very similar to.) This, you have ruled out.

The following is just my rambling on and on....

Yes, on some woods BLO, and other oil finishes, weep-back will occur. I once was a true believer in Well Washed used men's white undershirt Tee's to wipe down BLO, at least the 100% cotton Tee's. I was convinced that it had to be 100% soft cotton. It was the soft and well worn rag that got into the large cell pores of the wood that would soak up the excess BLO. And then re-wipe down the wood in 20 or 30 minutes vigorously with another clean rag from the same source. But even then you still can get some weep-back on very large cell exotic woods.

But now I have tried the disposable blue "shop towels" thick paper towel on a roll from my local BORG. Made by Kimberly Clark under the Scott Towels brand label. That product is stiff and takes some effort, but it will absorb the excess BLO. (same fire hazard disposal problem as with cotton rags soaked in BLO of course.)

I am moving more to spray cans of acrylic finishes like the Minwax polycrylic water based (borne?) finishes. But I am not doing intarsia like you. An air brush would be ideal, except I believe (again, no proof, just an opinion) that the water borne acrylic finish molecules are too large for most nozzles of common air brushes. Spray cans of Minwax are much more inexpensive that that mini spray gun slash air brush replacement at Homestead Finishing that cost several hundred dollars.

Have you tried a can of Minwax polycrylic satin finish spray can? Very light coats. Has good levelling characteristics, but naturally is prone to sags and curtain runs if you apply too thick of a coat. Dries medium quick, maybe two hours before re-coat. Two or more days for full cure.

Polycrylic does not "burn" between layers which melts one coat into another. Like varnish, you need to scratch each layer with one of those 3M finish pads that Woodcraft sells which are a steel wool substitute for water based finishes. Is the white one the super-fine 4/0 (four aught) subsitute?

Sorry, I am not much help to you.

Phil

[jim_mex]

Hi again Janette - having just read Phil's comment which he posted a split second after me it seems that I may be sending you down a similar path to your Danish Oil experience if indeed you were using a 'true' danish oil, ie polymerised linseed oil, as opposed to one of the myriad of Danish Oil finishes out in the market.

Nevertheless I'd still suggest you try Tung Oil to see how it compares to what you have already tried.

Cheers

[Magic]

Thanks Phil. I have seen Steve Good's video on lemon oil and realize that what he uses is a US based store product. I was just wondering if there was a home recipe for something similar. I do use BLO along with Danish and Tung oil for other things. Thanks, Magic

[Janette]

I'm hoping not to have to sand in between coats - since there are so many uneven surfaces, nooks and crannies. I personally don't care for the sprays - partially for the sanding in between and also, they tend to smell pretty bad. I'm hoping to find a good quality finish with a liquid. For now, I'll keep using the gel. It gives me great results - just a little more work. I'd hate to spend all those hours making a piece then cheat with a quick finish. Well...I would like to cheat ...just not have it look like I did! Also, I don't often have 4 or 5 days to wait for coats to dry. Some of my most productive days are just before a big show - or magazine deadline.

[GrayBeard Phil]

Janette:

With your skill and artistry level, I am hesitant to make further suggestions because I am only a hobbyist. I truly don't think the polyacrylic line from Minwax smells bad at all (this is not the same as polyurethane line from Minwax but the water based acrylic finish.) It does come in liquid form, which needs a brush; never tired the liquid myself.

I recommend you ask your question on the forum at Homestead Finishing. The posters there are very, very knowledgeable, but IMHO they don't tolerate easy hobbyist questions about finishing too well. More of an advanced level of discussions.

You never know, Waterlux may be the way to go.