Questions about SAW

lThank you all for your responses. I will attempt to answer each concern in the order posted.
Canadian Scroller: I would like to hear from you after presenting the ACES program at the fair. Any imput will enable us to make the next program better still. As for different levels of membership, I think that would create more problems that it might solve. How would you suggest we break it down? Discounts for people that contribute? Do you mean patterns you create or articles that are written?
Woodbutcher68; Two of the main reasons for the increase in membership fees are: The cost of postage has gone sky high , and $3 of each membership is allotted for the Scholarship Fund and the Opportunity Grant Program. We spend approx $25 for oversees memberships in mailing costs alone. I hope you continue to receive valuable information from the wesite and magazines. Is there anything you would like to see published there?
Gill: We have members in 11 Countries, currently. We receive 80-90 hits alone from other countries each month on our website. From my point of view, I think that is very impressive. As for the dearth of contacts from other countries, that is simply not so. AS for where the members of the Board of Directors live. Each year three positions come open for election to the Board. All members are encouraged to place their name on the ballot. After serving two terms each officer must step down for a period of one year, then they are eligible to run again. I repeat, each member is eligible to run for a seat on the Board. At ;the present time, the current Board is spread across 9 states in the USA. A ha you say , see not International at all. If they don't run they can't get elected. Perhaps you have a suggestion on how we can make this SHORTCOMING better. We can only offer the chance, we cannot control the response.
Website responses:
1. Collective Representation: downtrodden and oppressed. I don't understand that statement. We have quite a few businesses that offer discounts to SAW members. Also maufacturers are more willing to address problems with equipment failure when contacted by a organization than an individual.
2. SAWDUST; I guess I did not make myself clear at the top, WE are not in competition with SSW. Better? not trying to be better or worse. JUst trying to add to the scrolling hobby. I for one feel there are many avenues for the scroller to pursue, SAW is just trying to be one also. I really enjoy my issues of SSW and have had the occasion, more than once, to meet and talk to both Shannon and Bob. I commend the work they do and am certainly not trying to compete with them.
3. Annual Directory: Just curious, If you are not a member then how can you say what is in the directory and how can you find it offensive? If the information listed does not HELP you in England then maybe you could send us the addresses that you deal with over there. We would be more than happy to include them in our Directory. We can only list helpful information that our membership provides for us. That is one of the main reasons for this post in the first place. What do you need and how can we help you get the information you need. That is what constructive comments are all about/
4. Referral Program. not worth responding to.
5. ID Card: I would guess the next SAW event in England depends on when someone over there plans it. Mis-conception: SAW does not plan or put on the picnics and events that are held each year. Those are done by local clubs. When local clubs or Chapters contact us to make their event a SAW sponsered event, SAW provides the awards and ribbons for the Competition.
We do this with no money coming back to us, but as something we provide to our members. We are not in charge of who the demonstrators are or how the picnic is run. With 5-8 picnics each year this amounts to considerable expense, paid for out of the Membership Funds.
6. refer to 5.
SAW-ONLINE.com: interesting choce of words.

Patrick Spielman and Judy GAle Roberts Books; Knowing both Judy and Jerry I am sure they did not intend for their patterns to be made solely out of the wood they use. If fact, I have seen many works using their pattens that are really beautiful. Also, that is why our Directory lists many many wood suppliers so the scrollers of the world have access to all the products available.
Gill, I thak you for your responses, now I would like to see helpful suggestions. That is why I wrote this. thanks for your time and imput.

Arbarnhart: I am glad you asked about Profit or Non-Profit. SAW is a Non-Profit organization listed with a 501c3 status. That does limit us somewhat in our ability to advertise. All functions by Board Members are out of pocket. We are not reimbursed in anyway by funds collected from our members. When any of us attend a function such as a picnic, that is our own expense. The Home office usually takes about 40-50 hours a month to maintain all the mailings and membership updates. This is free gratis by our Secretary. A truly wonderful person. Our SAWDUST Editor again puts in many many hours getting the various mailings ready for print. Again this is free gratis. I guess that covers the COMPLAINT about the newletters not being professional. Professional , I think, means getting paid. She does not, but I fell she does a terrific job and would not hesitate to have her put together a mailing for me personnaly.

Mooner: Benifits improve with each passing year SAW has been in existence. Thanks for you coments about the ACES program. That was also done free gratis by Ric AS for the events and where they are held. Again we do not control that. That is done by each local club. We are just there to help them if they so desire.

William Young, Thank you for your imput. You are right, you do not have to be a member to participate inSAW's forum. I think you have the concept I am trying to say here. Every site has something to offer. My main premise was to ask: what are people looking for from SAW. If we don't know, we cannot provide it so speak up everyone.

Lucky788scroller:
AS for the politics of forming a club. All of our suggestions are just that , suggestions. When I formed the two clubs in Ohio, I pretty much rewrote the By-Laws to fit our needs.
Yes the Scholarship fund will be awarded this year. Watch your SAWDUST for particulars. Next year we expect or hope for many more applications.
As for Gils questions, I whole heartedly agree. That is why I am here. What do they need from SAW. Telling what is wrong is ok but I want to have concrete suggestions on how to make this better for all.
AS for your article about the 4H kids. WE would love to have it for an issue. As we all know, kids are the future of scrolling. Youo may contact any board member about the article.
Now to answer your questions:
In 2005 I was asked to run for the board by then 3 current members. I had met them at various functions in scrolling. I thought about it and asked many questions. I made the decision that I thought that would be something I could contribute to. AS for benefiting me, I am not sure I thought of it that way. Having retired in 1999 at an early age, i got envolved with scroll-sawing. Saw one being demonstrated at a woodworking show and just fell in love with the concept of doing art without being an artist. After working for the Government and being a Coach at the highest level I needed something to help me relax in my retirement years. Scrolling has done that. What do I bring to the table. Organizational skills. Fresh ways to look at old problems. Freedom from some of the POLITICAL problems that have confronted SAW. Most of all I made a promise to the current board that I wanted to see at the very least double their membership before my term runs out. That is why I have asked the question I have asked on here. WHAT do the current, former, and non-members want from SAW. If I can get enough constructive answers then that gives us something to run with. Any Suggestions?
sorry this took so long folks, Toby
P.S. my former players always accused me of being windy lol lol
.

[arbarnhart]

Originally Posted by ZooZoo1

[...]
concept of doing art without being an artist.
[...]

You may have just stepped on a few toes there.

So SAW is not a for profit enterprise after all? I guess I got the wrong impression. I would not be at all surprised if I am not the only one. One of the things that made me think that might not be so was the concept of paying for your membership by referring others. The "pyramid marketing alarm" goes off when I see that type of offer. Anyway, you might want to think about making sure it is clearer to people that it is an all volunteer organization without paid staff.

I agree. That seems to be one of the areas we need to work on. Even some of our membership thinks we are paid. Sigh, One of the reasons we have really cut back on attending the Picnics is because of the travel expense. All of us would love to go to all of them, but that just is not practical. And it is also not practical for the members. That is one of the reasons I think that more and more regional picnics are popping up. Gas prices are hurting us all. But ouor economy is great, just read the news lol. thanks for your post, Toby

[CanadianScroller]

I think it is great to get more people involved, and as far as I can see that is SAWs main objective.
I did get a sample copy of Sawdust once and I did like it.

The cost of the membership is what holds me back, that and the fact that I spend so much time on here. I love this forum and love writing for Fox Chapel.

I also understand that it is not possible to lower the costs. There is a great deal of cost and effort when running a program of this magnitude.

If people are starting out and are looking for instruction on the basics, I recommend they check out the ACES program.

How do we cross oceans to expand SAW? The fact that you are asking questions in forums like this is one of the keys. Gill is an active member of several forums and offers some great points.

I said once before that different levels of membership may help. Perhaps there could be a free membership, one that does not carry a vote or a subscription to Sawdust. Something like this forum. That would expand the resources for both paid and non paid memberships.

[Rick H]

I have to make a couple of comments here. ACES was not designed for the new scroller to learn to saw. The video was designed for a person that wants to put on a seminar about scrollsawing to a group. The video covers the very basics of what is involved in scrolling, it was not designed to teach you how to do it. With this 20 minute video anyone can go to a group and introduce themself, play the video, and answer questions, making an easy 30 minute program. It was held to 30 minutes because that is about the attention span of the groups the program was mainly aimed at. It was made to show how easy and inexpensive scrolling can be to get started in. This was designed to make more people aware of the scrolling hobby, and hoping to get them involved into scrolling too. The more the merrier.

A side note, on the free membership, if you can't vote, don't get the newsletter or the directory, not eligable for the insurance, not elgible for the schollarship, or the opportunity grant, not issued an ID card, then what would you expect to get from SAW. Would SAW have any expense to have a person as a free member. The idea has some merit, I just need more details to take to the BOD of SAW.

[BobD]

Out of the blue the way I see this is...the free membership is a great way to just get the word out about SAW...from a PR standpoint, it's like the Handyman Club of America type thing...Yeah, I'm a member of SAW..you can join too. It's free, but if you pay $35 you get xx

It shows, rather than tells, that MEMBERS are important--not the membership fees (does that make sense)...The way for SAW to gain momentum IS to get more members.

Bob

[Gill]

Hi Toby

Okay, let's try to generate a little more light and a little less heat .


Website responses:

1. Collective Representation: I was trying to point out that I wasn't sure what you were trying to achieve through collective representation. If you've been able to negotiate discounts for SAW members, that's fine - I understand. However, such discounts won't mean much to the international community unless they're available locally. For example, I would like to be able to take my SAW membership card into my local B&Q DIY shed and get a discount there. Insofar as supporting members who have encountered truculent retailers, that is also laudable. When I read your website, I wasn't sure if this was what you meant or if you were a campaigning organisation like Amnesty International. Perhaps it would encourage international membership if you could illustrate this benefit with examples of how you've been able to help members in the past, both in the states and overseas.

2. Sawdust: I realise you're not competing with other magazines. I wonder if visitors to your website appreciate that too. If I have a criticism of American publications, it's that they can be rather parochial (I hasten to add that SSW does not fall down on this point!) so I would urge you to emphasise the international aspects of your articles. I'm on rather unsafe ground here because I've never read your magazine, so I don't know what it contains. Obviously, you would try to avoid blatantly patriotic articles but it's important to eliminate more subtle inferences. I think SAW needs to emphasise to international scrollers that the articles in Sawdust will be relevant to them in their locality.

3. Annual Directory: You say the annual directory is a national publication. Reading between the lines and judging your comments earlier in this thread, I'd be surprised if this didn't mean it is an American publication. North American legislation differs enormously from that which pertains internationally; for example, try buying a saw in Europe which can be fitted with a dado blade! I think you need to make it clear to potential international members that this directory covers legislation and resources not only in America, but also Europe, Australasia, and other major regions - and if it doesn't, it's up to you to make sure it does real soon!

By the way, I think we're making progress here ! Seeking contributions from overseas is definitely one of the ways you'll develop SAW into a truly international organisation.

4. Referral Program. You said my comments were not worth responding to. Not surprisingly, I disagree. I don't see the referral program as being a benefit of membership at all unless you're already a member. I think it would be far wiser to emphasise this to your current members because it pertains to them, not potential members. Potential members wouldn't want to join an organisation which it appears will attach importance to the recruitment of new members. They'll want to scroll, not recruit.

5. ID Card: Do you see the point of my admittedly ascerbic comment? Before you issue international members with ID cards, it's important to establish a presence in their country. Go on international forums, contact renowned international scrollers and persuade them to help you establish such a presence (and before you ask, I'm not up for this - I'd rather be making sawdust).

I've discussed the potential of supplementing American scrollsaw books with you elsewhere and I hope we now understand each other a little better.

It's good that you're looking to develop SAW. An international body could bring us many advantages and help to develop scrolling worldwide. If you're to do this, though, I would suggest you first seek to understand the opportunities and restrictions that scrollers have to contend with world-wide. For example, high street retailers and DIY sheds don't sell decent blades in the UK. That may also be true of the USA, Italy and Egypt for all I know. Scrollers obviously need blades if the craft is to develop and grow, so SAW should be seeking ways of making quality blades more readily available in countries where they are not readily available.

I hope you find these comments more constructive than my previous ones.

Gill

[Rick H]

I must say that I feel Sawdust has been as international as we can be. We have featured articles from South Africa, Israel, Sweden, Germany, Australia, and Canada. If we had more article submitted they would have been in the newsletter too. Just about any article or pattern submitted will be published in the newsletter. I would like to see more from other countries but we need to find people willing to write them.
As for selling wood and blades around the world that would be more difficult. SAW is non profit and has no means to stock and ship these items. There are companies that do sell most of these products and some that should ship worldwide. Blades for one are mostly made in Germany, exotic woods are not from here either. The Directory lists many of the places to look for supplies from sources around the world. Even places like Hobbies in England, a great source I have ordered from.
As for setting up discounts from places. Mostly the vendors that offer discounts have offered them to SAW members. If any others would like to offer discounts I'm sure the members would use them. It is difficult to pursuade vendors to give discounts just because someone is a member of an organization. Our local woodworking club ( not a scrollsaw club ) has many discounts available to club members from local stores. This is easier to do on a local level than to get worldwide discounts. SAW is always trying to find more discounts, and trying to find other ways to benefit members like insurance and scholarships.
SAW is an organization that is trying to bring scrollers from around the world together. There are many techniques and topics that can be shared to make us all aware of more things that can be done in scrolling.

[Woodbutcher68]

I'm looking at my 2006 Directory as I type this and I see that the International members are listed showing 10 countries including Canada outside of the U.S. I also see a few companies outside the U.S., such as JD Woodward in England, Shesto LTD in the UK, Diamond Scroll Saws in England. There are patterns suppliers from the U.S.A., Canada, Germany, Spain, the UK, Australia. There's even one from some place called Grimes, IA, wherever that is!
The resource section is 56 pages full of information that would take months to put together.
Our local woodworking club has 3 members of SAW and the Chicagoland Scrollers, a SAW chapter meets in the Chicago area, not far from me. Our club has a member who solicits discounts for our members with a current membership card. We currently get discounts from the local Rockler, Harbor Freight, Klingspors, Wood magazine and a number of local businesses. We also have field trips to local wood related businesses such as Hoosier Bat Company ( they make bats for Sammy Sosa and other professional players) and a few specialty woodworking shops in the area. The Forrester Road School of Woodworking is about 45 minutes away and have given presentations. We have had representatives from a number of companies give demonstrations (and products) including Freud, Porter-Cable (gave away 4 different belt sanders), Bessey Clamp, the president of Kreg jig and the president of Micro-Mesh (another one of those Iowa people). Carter Johnson has also been to our meetings.
My point is that by becoming a member of SAW and utilizing the resources they offer, anyone could start an affiliate chapter. Not only would you benefit from the shared knowledge of members, you could also put together group buys to get discounts and approach local businesses about discounts. (There's strength in numbers).

That's my .02, so I'll shut now.

[Rolf]

Gill you write very well and should consider submitting an article about some of the difficulties you experience finding the resources to pursue your hobby. Although I thing the web has made it much easier and made a lot of things international. I buy patterns from Germany, most of our blades are manufactured there also (I think). I buy a lot of parts for my car from England all via the net.
To publish anything these days that isn't offensive to someone is difficult, the worlds cultures are so diverse.
In closing any organization, club, group is only as good as its members and their input. As a member of SAW I appreciate that it is looking to the scrolling community for input to make it a more valuable entity for all of us.
Just my opinion.