New vs. old Hawk

[Arcy]

Hi all,

I've been talking to somebody locally who is selling a late '80s RBI Hawk 20 Inch Precision Scroll Saw (Model #220VS) and I'm trying to figure out the differences between that and the current Ultra Precision #220VS (Hawk Precision Scroll Saw).

The photos look very similar, so I assume the chassis is basically the same, but from the Ultra's brag sheet and Hawk's accessories page it looks like there are substantial differences in the motor and in convenience features (blow hose, blade quick change, etc.).

Can anybody familiar with both comment on the relevant differences?

The used one is substantially less expensive, but I'm not sure it's enough less expensive to be worth it. The gentleman selling it thinks many of the convenience features can be upgraded, but I suspect that the cost of doing so would bring the used one close enough to the cost of the new model not to be worth it.

Thanks,
Rob

[PeteB]

I have an Ultra saw, and took a look at the Pro manual on the RBI website to see how the older saws compare with mine.

The blade change is different, with the barrel-type clamps instead of the 'ultra' clamps. The Ultra clamps seem a little less fussy, but I would say that the difference in time to change blades would be negligible.

The older saw topped out at 1400spm while the newer ones go up to 1750spm, IIRC. I rarely go over 1400, myself, but if you will be cutting very thick hardwood with large blades, you may appreciate a little more speed.

My saw has the flexible blower, an easy upgrade. The dust port is no big deal, just a hole in the top of the stand; I don't use mine.

All in all, I don't think there's much difference between the Ultra and the Pro. The G4, on the other hand, has additional features and is reportedly smoother. I would ante up the additional $100 and buy a G4 rather than a new Ultra. I would also be more likely to buy a lightly-used Pro than a new G4, if the price was right.

[Arcablue]

At the campus craft center (UC Davis, I'm the wood manager there ) we have an older version of the Hawk saw. Its a great machine... but changing the blades is a bit of a hassle when first learning the machine with the barrel clamps. I couldn't say anything about the newer version though...

[Rolf]

I would also go with the G4 for the extra money.
One thing I really don't like about the older Hawks is that the tension release is at the back of the machine. I don't mind setting the main tension at the back but it should have a quick release up front for faster fret cutting.

I just looked on their web site and the pictures don't show a quick release up front but the literature says it does have it.

[PeteB]

Rolf, I have the front cam and made sure the Pro did, too, when I answered above.

I think they'd have to put me away if I had to use that rear cam every time.

[Arcy]

Originally Posted by PeteB

I have an Ultra saw, and took a look at the Pro manual on the RBI website to see how the older saws compare with mine.

Thanks Pete. Grabbing the manuals from RBI's site's a great idea. I agree that on a new one getting the G4 rather than the 220 is no contest, but it's out of my budget for this month. I may revisit that in September depending on how that goes.

This one tempted me on price at first, but on reflection I think it's more than I want to spend on older, out-of-warrantee tech.

There seem to be a lot of older Hawks showing up for sale around here in the $450-$600 range, but the same ads keep popping up again and again so I'm not the only one thinking that's too high.

--Rob

[Arcy]

Originally Posted by Arcablue

changing the blades is a bit of a hassle when first learning the machine with the barrel clamps.

Is this a hassle to figure out, but once done it's reasonably easy or is it tricky to see and reach even after you know what you're doing? Most of the good saws I've looked at have easy access to the blade holder, but it's hard to tell for sure from the pictures.

Changing the blades is the one significant complaint with my current Dremel 1671. The lower blade holder is enclosed within the chassis, and my fingers are just out of comfortable reach to pop the lower blade holder in. I suspect I can loosen the connector a bit so it'll snap in a bit more easily, but haven't gotten around to it yet.

--Rob

[Arcy]

The guy who has the saw mentioned that it didn't have one of the current quick releases, but that it could be retrofitted. It wasn't clear what exactly that was (tension or blade). It may be something that was added between when his was made and the manual was printed.

--Rob

[PeteB]

Originally Posted by Arcy

There seem to be a lot of older Hawks showing up for sale around here in the $450-$600 range, but the same ads keep popping up again and again so I'm not the only one thinking that's too high.

Just have to keep looking. When I was shopping, Craigslist had a nice Ultra in California for $150. I didn't have anyone who could pick it up for me as required by the seller, so that one got away. I paid $600 for mine two years ago. It was in as-new condition and came with a ton of books, blades, and a foot switch. I have no regrets over the purchase.

[Arcy]

I'd definitely jump on a local one for $150 (though I'd look for dents where it fell off a truck). Fortunately I'm not desperate right now, so I can wait until either the right deal comes along or I can budget a full price new machine

It's kind of surprising how many used Hawks are on the market around here.

--Rob