Why are scrollers so negative about selling?

[Jediscroller]

I'm just curious, I see so many comments from scrollers along the lines of "you'll never make any money" or something along those lines. Have you folks had bad experiences or is there some other reason? It must be really disheartening to someone just starting out to see these types of comments. You can make money doing this. Is it easy? Of course not. Can you make a living at it? Absolutely! It takes time, dedication and a lot of hard work but it can be done. It strikes me as odd how it's only scrollers that seem to have this negativity about making a living in the craft world. Craft sites and forums always seem to be just the opposite with lots of positive encouragement and tips. If you want to do just fairs, it would still be possible but you would likely need to do 75 or more fairs to make a full-time living. Will you get rich? I guess it depends on how you define rich. If you define rich purely monetarily then no, you won't get rich doing this. If you define rich as working for yourself, the satisfaction of making your own way and the joy of working at a job you love, then yes.
Anyhow, I was just curious why so many folks are so negative regarding the business side.

[Pajaro]

Kevin You know, I have never thought of that. I guess, for me anyways, I just don't try hard enough. I do make a few dollars here and there. I have a web site, same with that, a sale now and then. Also I am not sure I want to do this as a living. But I am waiting and building up my workshop equipment and wood supply so when I retire I can devote a lot more time to it. I just don't want to make my fun time...into work time. I am not sure I would like it then. But thanks for asking. I'll try harder not to negative. My wife tells me the only thing I am positive of is negative.

[KtownScroller]

I personally think it very hard trying to make a living selling scroll saw art. I base that on my observations from shows I attend in the Reading/Allentown PA area. I also have connections to a couple of consignment shops in the area, shops that are in prime shopping areas, that have a difficult time moving items. I don't think most scroller's are geared toward quickly knocking out projects and then putting on the salesman hat and peddling their wares on the week end. Another problem is that people around here want everything for nothing. Take for instance the wooden geared clock I am building; a neighbor stopped by one day and thought he was building up my ego by telling me I could probably sell the clock for $100! HA! I have more money in materials than $100 sunk into the project. Evidently the average Joe does not have a clue about what wood, brass, stain, finish and hardware cost. This is one of the biggest reasons I don't think a crafter can turn a buck doing crafts around here. Another instance that comes to mind is when I was building whirligigs. I had $25 in materials in one project that I was working on and another neighbor stopped and asked if I could make her the same whirligig for $10? People just don't have a clue and that my friend is where I just don't think it is possible to make a buck around here.

I understand that you make a living at it and that is because you are diversified and extremely talented. Evidently you know how to sell too. I just don't think the average scroll sawer has those talents and gifts.

[wjbclocks1]

I tried one church fair and sold one clock for $150.00 and a Christmas ornament for $6.00.Now that was for a three day event. And the space cost me $15.00 I had alot of pepole tell me how nice my work was but thought the prices were a little out of their reach.
I got more enjoyment out of entering my clocks in a countryfair and getting best of show or best wood item ribbions or even just a blue ribbion

[Chris "The Wood Artist"]

I agree with Kevin, I sell some of my stuff, but I haven't become rich with $$$$ from it. I have become rich in other ways though, I'm disabled from the construction and remolding field, and this type of woodwork allows me to still do something I enjoy doing. Now I'm not out there trying to make $$$$ from it, if I was I would get burned out on it. I do it as an enjoyment. The $$$ I make covers the materials I don't charge for my time, because I would be doing it anyways. I even make a little profit in some cases, usually buy more material with it, but I've been getting a lot of free wood so that allows me to say I have gotten a little profit. Also, by me not charging for time, I am not put on a time frame, I tell people when they ask about making something, "If you are in a hurry for it, it'll cost you more, if you can wait, I'll get it as fast as I can, but it will be cheaper." And you know I have been lately, so busy doing it this way, that I haven't had much time to even work on personal projects. Go figure. Anyways, what I'm trying to say is, if you do it like a business, you will be negative, if you do it like a hobby, no matter what happens, you will be happy b/c you are doing something you enjoy.

[Jediscroller]

Originally Posted by KtownScroller

I base that on my observations from shows I attend in the Reading/Allentown PA area. I also have connections to a couple of consignment shops in the area, shops that are in prime shopping areas, that have a difficult time moving items. Another problem is that people around here want everything for nothing. Take for instance the wooden geared clock I am building; a neighbor stopped by one day and thought he was building up my ego by telling me I could probably sell the clock for $100! HA! I have more money in materials than $100 sunk into the project. Evidently the average Joe does not have a clue about what wood, brass, stain, finish and hardware cost. This is one of the biggest reasons I don't think a crafter can turn a buck doing crafts around here. Another instance that comes to mind is when I was building whirligigs. I had $25 in materials in one project that I was working on and another neighbor stopped and asked if I could make her the same whirligig for $10? People just don't have a clue and that my friend is where I just don't think it is possible to make a buck around here.

That surprises me considering the prices that were fetched at the Baum Art Auction in Allentown. Yes, there are people everywhere who have no clue and they will continue to shop at Ikea and Walmart. The key is finding the right shows as well as targeting your wares to the market. If people don't want to spend more than $10 on an item, then make items that are profitable at $10. Why try to sell a Rolls-Royce to someone shopping for a Volkswagon?
You have an art school in your area so I'm sure there's a market somewhere for higher end crafts. Check out The Baum School of Art, Allentown Pennsylvania
They might even be able to offer some suggestions as to where you could sell your wares profitably.
Of course, I do fairs all over, not just in my hometown (though I am lucky in that we have one of the biggest here).

[DWSudekum]

Most of the problem as I see it is Market and Marketing.

What do I mean??

Let say I make a completely wooden clock and try to sell it at say a Flea Market or a Craft Show I would have an extremely difficult time getting close to my moneys worth, HOWEVER, if I instead took the same clock to a convention of Clock Lovers then I probably would stand a much better chance of getting more than my moneys worth. This obviously is a silly example but it makes the point. This goes for anything we make.

If you present your quality works at a craft show you will be most likely be going up against the crowd that is used to seeing something simular that has been mass produced in China and is cents on a dollar. Yours is better but the other is cheaper. Hard to compete against that. We need to pick carefully what we sell and where and for how much. Things are not always straight forward though.

Things that you think will sell well for some reason don't and the "trashy junk" items you can not keep in stock. Sometimes it is the other way around. It may take you a year or more to get a good feel for what will sell where and when. In some areas there are sellers co ops. What are those? A sellers Co-Op is a group of sellers that have banded together rented a space and through cooperation of the sellers man the selling areas. The folks there are vendors just like you. Everyone's work is displayed in a booth or display case. The customers are assisted by the vendors working the floor. The work load is normally spread out over the month.

Anyway to make a long tale shorter. My take on why scrollers are so negative is 3 fold,

ONE . . . no market research... ie... wrong product for the market area.

TWO ... we fully realize that making each and every item can be a lot of work... One z'z and two z"s are fine but to make a living you need to make a lot more .. that is a lot of work for one or 2 people. It can be done but it takes dedication.

THREE . . . . Generally no one product will bring home the bacon. You will need to cover a lot of bases. Again it is a fair amount of work.

Most scroller's I know want to have fun ... relax create a couple of something(s), but having to work hard at something that is supposed to be fun takes the joy out of it for a lot of folks. So while they are Skilled Craftspeople and Artists having to work hard is just that ... work and not relaxation. That is of course only my take on this subject.


DW

[KtownScroller]

Originally Posted by Jediscroller

That surprises me considering the prices that were fetched at the Baum Art Auction in Allentown. Yes, there are people everywhere who have no clue and they will continue to shop at Ikea and Walmart. The key is finding the right shows as well as targeting your wares to the market. If people don't want to spend more than $10 on an item, then make items that are profitable at $10. Why try to sell a Rolls-Royce to someone shopping for a Volkswagon?
You have an art school in your area so I'm sure there's a market somewhere for higher end crafts. Check out The Baum School of Art, Allentown Pennsylvania
They might even be able to offer some suggestions as to where you could sell your wares profitably.
Of course, I do fairs all over, not just in my hometown (though I am lucky in that we have one of the biggest here).

Hi Kevin - I'm not looking to sell. My experience comes from years of going with my Dad to high end, middle end and low end craft shows. Dad liked to sell just enough items to cover the next load of wood, blades, hardware, ect. He made a lot of his money selling jewelry boxes. Later on when he got up in age, he took up scroll sawing and sold some of those type craft items at a modest profit. He maybe covered the cost of the table and a hamburger at those shows. I think it just gave him something to do.

When people see me cutting they stop by and sometimes ask if I would make them one. This is where the shock factor comes into play. People just don't understand what that exotic wood costs. When I tell them, they just about fall over and tell me to forget about making them something. Actually I have no desire to make anything for anybody. I do the crafts for personal pleasure. Not to say that every now and then I won't go into business mode. If I want to buy a tool or something I'll push certain things that I know are profitable, hoping to make enough extra money to buy the tool. This does not happen often. If I want to make a quick buck, I go looking for computer work. That is where the easy money is, if I want it. Two hours work and $50 in my pocket beats all.

As a side note I think you are misleading the readers here with your inclusion of the Baum School Art Auction. They are not selling crafts there. They are selling modest priced drawings and paintings. Now if you spot me a link where they are selling scroll saw crafts locally for those kind of prices then I will be impressed.

I know some money can be made with crafts. Just not enough to make it worthwhile for me.

[Jediscroller]

Originally Posted by KtownScroller

Hi Kevin
As a side note I think you are misleading the readers here with your inclusion of the Baum School Art Auction. They are not selling crafts there. They are selling modest priced drawings and paintings. Now if you spot me a link where they are selling scroll saw crafts locally for those kind of prices then I will be impressed.

Hehehehehe, so you're saying that scrolling isn't art? (Sorry, just couldn't help myself on that one).

My point with the art auction was simply to point out that there are people in your area who are willing to spend money on something they find desirable as opposed to "want everything for nothing." The school offers classes in jewelry making, ceramics and a whole bunch of other stuff. Perhaps someone in the area could approach them about offering scrolling classes. This is the type of stuff that needs to happen in order to elevate scrolling to the loftier prices and more importantly be recognized as a legitimate craft and not just a hobby.

FWIW, the vast majority of my sales are in the $20 - $30 range. I will typically only sell a few of the higher end pieces (or none at all). It's always a nice bonus though when someone buys one of my $200 pieces.
As far as "some money" can be made, yes indeed and quite a bit of it from the looks of some of the professional crafters I see. Takes a pretty decent income to buy a $250,000 RV along with a 40 ft. trailer. You'll see lots of these at high-end fairs.

I don't begrudge folks who do this purely as a hobby as that's fine. I can only imagine the type of stuff I'd make if this were just a hobby for me. I just wish hobbiests who have done one or 2 fairs wouldn't discourage folks who wish to pursue it further. More market exposure would be good for all of us.

BTW, I'd love to build a reputation for jewelry boxes. There's a fellow out of Vermont (IIRC) who's boxes typically sell for $500 and up and he sells tons of them at a few fairs in this area along with fairs up and down the Eastern Seaboard.

DW, I agree with your whole post. I especially like three. A variety of offerings is key and I would add that a variety of price-points helps a lot too.

[KtownScroller]

Originally Posted by Jediscroller

BTW, I'd love to build a reputation for jewelry boxes. There's a fellow out of Vermont (IIRC) who's boxes typically sell for $500 and up and he sells tons of them at a few fairs in this area along with fairs up and down the Eastern Seaboard.

Dad sold small two drawer boxes made out of exotic wood for $50. His larger boxes sold for $350. He always had some on hand in case someone was looking for one. For years I had my eye on a mans white oak jewelry box with mahogany inlay that he had in his collection. One Christmas he decided to give everyone in the family a shot at the boxes that he had left. Guess which one I took/still have?

Just added some pictures. The box has aged over the past 20 years and looks like red oak. Believe me when I tell you that it is white oak.

That box would have cost you $200, twenty years ago. It looks kind of simple, but I would like to see how the K-Mart version jewelry box has held up for 20 years. It probably fell apart!