Removed thread about Copyright protection

[BobD]

Part of my job is to monitor the message board. Usually, that is an
enjoyable part of my day; interacting with scrollers literally from
around the world.

Unfortunately, over the past few days, a particular thread has consumed
most of the time I spend on the forum, and it has been anything but
enjoyable.

That thread put me in a difficult position. I only recently talked about
how I want to maintain an attitude of free and open discussion on the
message board...mimicking the freedoms of speech we enjoy in the US as
much as possible.

I believe I've said in the past, but here it is again: my formative
experience in writing was for a newspaper, and that left an imprint on
me not to limit freedom of speech in any way. It also taught me that
there is a difference between a private citizen and a public citizen.

If an ordinary person gets arrested for driving under the influence, we
didn't really cover it in the newspaper (it happens often enough that it
really isn't news). But if the mayor got busted for DUI we would cover
it. It's the difference between a private figure and a public figure

In USA Today, a popular scroll saw pattern designer may not be a public
figure, in the world of scrolling, that person IS a public figure.

So how do I handle this thread? It is easily in the top 10 most
difficult decisions I've ever made. If I take it down outright, it looks
like I'm trying to protect a designer. If I leave it up, I'm tarnishing
the reputation of a talented designer who may or may not be in the
wrong--it's not my place to decide that!

Shannon posted asking that people allow the courts to decide who is in
the right and who is in the wrong. And while the subject changed a bit
and got more philosophical, the thread continued to be testimony in the
court of public opinion. There comes a time when all that can be said
has been said; when the same thing is said again and again in different
ways, it serves no one's purpose!

In the end, the editorial team decided to take the thread down. No one
has appointed any of us judge, jury, and executioner. It is my job to
enforce the Bill of Rights and maintain harmony on the message board.

If you have any concerns about this, please address them to me
privately. Let me close with two links that helped the editorial team
come to this decision:
Scroll Saw Workshop Message Board Bill of Rights

Our Bill of Rights

Bob Duncan
Technical Editor

[Dragon]

Thank you Bob. I come here on the board for fun and learnings. I never talk politics or religion with anyone and I think that should apply to the board also. I realize that some copyright issues have to be discussed when it comes to using a pattern or exchanging a pattern but there is a limit to what I want to hear or read about.

I found that most people here are very friendly and all are very helpful. Let's keep it that way please. I still have much to learn and would like that to be a pleasant experience.

Diane

[Marsha]

Originally Posted by BobD

In the end, the editorial team decided to take the thread down. No one
has appointed any of us judge, jury, and executioner. It is my job to
enforce the Bill of Rights and maintain harmony on the message board.
Bob Duncan
Technical Editor

When this type of censoring happens it leaves me wondering what I have missed. Is it not possible to leave a thread alone but lock it when it becomes questionable, so that people like me, who don't read every single post every single day would still know what's gone on.
Marsha

[J D Hillberry]

To Mr. Duncan and the Scroll Saw Community,

Although I have not had any contact Mr. Zaffino I am well aware of the current situation and the recently removed post. Mr. Zaffino has sent me an email explaining he "must have mistakenly added my name from the pending list to the approved list. My images that were used without my consent were removed from his web sites.
http://www.jdhillberry.com/big_league.htm
http://www.jdhillberry.com/grandpa.htm
http://www.jdhillberry.com/tight_gate.htm

First of all, legally, there is no such thing as an “approved list” without any signatures. Both parties must sign a legally binding agreement before any copyrighted work can be used. My preliminary investigation has turned up over 17images from 7 different pencil artists that have had their work blatantly copied and sold as patterns and finished scroll saw pieces by Mr. Zaffino without permission. My guess is there may be many, many more. Three of these artists have recently been contacted by Mr. Zaffino with an offer to pay royalties and enter into a licensing agreement. None of these artists have signed anything. The other three have never been contacted by him. In all these cases he claims a "mistake" in paper work. The other three artists have not been contacted by Mr. Zaffino and their work continues to be sold as his own. Some of these images and listed as his “best sellers” on his web site.

Mr. Zaffino has been working under the "copy first, pay if you get caught" rule for many years. I found out today that Mr. Zaffino produced an article in Creative Woodworks & Crafts in 2006 in which he goes on at length about his inspiration to do his "Big League Dreams" design. Needless to say, it does not mention me or my work. http://www.jdhillberry.com/big_league.htm

Here is some text from the article:
"….Looking back on my childhood, some of my favorite memories are of my father and me out in the yard with a ball, a bat, and a glove. I would pretend I was my childhood hero Graig Nettles (the third baseman of the Yankees in the 70s), diving to the ground to stop a ball I could have easily just bent down to stop. Ahhh… good times!

I decided I should create a project that tied all those experiences together for me, while still being interesting enough to others that they would like to cut it also. Big League Dreams is the result of that effort."

There are also countless entries on popular scroll saw forums where he takes full credit for these original ideas for these images. An example, after a request for new patterns, He has stated he is considering adding a “let’s go grandma” to his images as a companion to his “let’s go grandpa”. Is he simply waiting for me to do it for him?

If the excuse is he thought he had permission to take my work. Did he also think he had permission to claim ownership of the original idea? No one would ever give permission for someone else to take credit for their original work like this.

I mean no disrespect to the Scroll Saw community in wanting all of this information to come out in a public forum. I realize that this is an art that takes time and skill to learn and I feel there is nothing wrong with adapting photos and drawings to your medium – if you get permission to do so. But people need to know the ramifications of making an unauthorized derivative of someone else’s copyrighted work. This sort of thing happens with pencil drawings as well. It is illegal to adapt a photo to a drawing and publish or sell it, without first getting written permission from the copyright owner. In cases of willful infringement for profit, it can be considered a felony.

Along with his financial gain, He has been able to gain a reputation in this industry at other artist's expense. This reputation was built on forums like this. I feel that censoring the honest dialogue could prove damaging to the scroll saw community. We have all been tricked here. And this is no time to hide it. I feel the scroll saw community has a duty to help shed light on this and the community has a right to know the truth. If nothing can be said about this situation in places like this, he will simply remove the images from his web site and nothing more will come of it. People like Marsha (above) will not be aware that they have been duped as well. As far as the fear of a slander or libel lawsuit commencing from this, please keep in mind that if the information is true, there can be no action taken.

The other artists that he has taken from would also like to state their cases here and post links to their stolen work as well. I hope this forum will give us all a chance to speak.

Thank you.
Sincerely,
J. D. Hillberry

[bearfretworks]

Thank you for posting here J. D. Hillberry.

I hope the other artists you mention will stop in and share as well AND that the forum administrators will let the posts stand.

[workin for wood]

Thanx JD. I don't really think it's for us to judge, like Bob says...but I think you deserve to speak, and whether or not we are able to do anything about your situation, we can at least learn a valuable lesson. I am in no position to judge or point fingers, just in a position to learn something from this situation, regardless how it turns out. I hope the board considers this and re-instates the deleted post as well...in the name of education.

[J D Hillberry]

Mr, Zaffino has been caught by several of these artists already and has freeley admitted through emails and phone conversations that, to begin with, he did not have permission to use these artist's work - claming it was a mistake by either him or an "assistant". This is the same thing he admitted in the email to me.
This "assistant" defense doesn't hold much water for two reasons:
1) An agreement must be signed by both responsible parties. Meaning only Mr. Zaffino has the authorization to enter any agreement about copyright usage. not an assistant. Some artists have been told in dated emails that the assistant has been fired. After that date, new infractions have occured.

2) In a scroll saw forum recently Mr. Zaffino states:
"In my experience, if you get an answer (permission to use copyrighted images) from the artist 90% of the time simply the fact that you asked for permission will impress them enough that they will have no problem with you using their image. However more often then not the artist will not answer. Don't mistake their silence as implied permission, unless they specifically say yes go ahead, keep looking for stuff to use and trying to get permission until you do.

I have my best results by going to shows and talking to the artists face to face where I can show them what I do. I have a list of a couple hundred artists who have granted me permission to use anything they create that I obtained this way.
Hope that this helped to answer your question...."

I have had to edit my post above several times because I just received notification that more artists have been ripped off. This one is from England. Pencil artists from all over the world are getting emails now from Mr. Zaffino stateing there has been a big mistake. By using an internet archive program that shows a history of his web site, I can see that some these images have been used and sold by him for years. I'm sorry, but this seems to be an awful lot of mistakes.

J. D.

[WyvernWench]

Dear J. D. Hillberry,

I appreciate that you have joined this forum and have posted to this thread. You, and only you, can speak to whether you have a signed, dated hard copy licensing agreement with this company or not. I believe that what Bob Duncan has done is close/remove a thread that could only speak in speculation, gossip, theory and assumption - not fact.

You are the one that has the facts concerning the use, reproduction and copyright on your work.

Speculation, conspiracy theories and assumptions further neither the Scroll Saw/Wood Carving community nor you.

I am also a pattern maker-fine artist that would like to re-enforce two of your excellent points and add one more concerning copyright and the use of those artist's original work to create patterns.

My statements are in general as I can not directly speak to your situation.

First - To use another artist/photographer work in the creation of patterns or designs for resale to third party users (customers and craftsmen) REQUIRES a documented hard copy (on letter head stationary) agreement that states the full terms and scope of the use of that image as well as any and all financial compensation. That document must be hand signed and dated by both parties. It's called a Copyright Licensing Agreement and is a standard document in any form of reproduction for other peoples original work.

So... emailing an artist asking if you can use their painting/picture/drawing in your scroll saw work is not the same nor equivalent to having obtained legal written permission to reproduce a derivative of that work for resale. In fact, such an email is misleading and deceptive! What it implies is that you want to use an image for your own personal work to display inside of your own home, not for sale.

Second - An artist's work does not need to physically carry the Copyright symbol, artist signature and date to be fully protected under the copyright laws both within the US and Internationally. Many images displayed on the web do have copyright added directly to the image - but is to disable that image from piracy, it is not fulfill legal requirements.

An artist's original work is copyrighted automatically under US law from the day that it is created. And a VA Copyright number from the Library of Congress is not required to secure your work as yours. It is something that I highly suggest that any artist obtain for their work. Copyright not only is automatic it extends for 70 years from the date of completion or until the death of the artist but that copyright is also an item that can be passed on in a will ....

My third point is that any image or artwork that we see on the internet must be assumed to be fully copyrighted whether that image carries the copyright symbol or not. Even images created by the Old Masters as Vinci or Rembrandt are fully copyrighted as the website that originally created the image owns the copyright on that web image.

Unless the website has a posted written statement that the images presented are for public domain use - hands off! And even with a public domain statement I, personally, would peruse a written licensing agreement.

Just my opinion.

Susan Irish - www.CarvingPatterns.com

I for one still stand by my original (yet deleted) statements on the matter. However, I’d like to make a few observations about our human condition as it relates to this subject.

Webster defines veracity as "devotion to the truth: Truthfulness; power of conveying or perceiving truth; conformity with truth or fact: Accuracy." The qualities of a veracious person are truthfulness, open-mindedness, straightforwardness, fairness, and sincerity. Veracity has to do with one's disposition toward truth.

How important is veracity? Without exception veracity is the greatest attribute of character one can possess. The definition of the word itself reveals that the absence of this trait will severely hinder perception of truth and our ability to conform our lives to the truth.

I understand first hand how people want everyone to get along and have a good time. But there comes a time when something wrong happens that a stand for what is right needs to take place (veracity). I have said for years that our freedoms here in the United States is not the right to do what we please, but the opportunity to do that which is right (veracity). Popular with the masses or not the truth must always be a guiding force in our lives or we are doomed to our own destruction, the very lack of veracity in our lives and culture..

If we are not careful our knowledge of truth will be only historical. That is, we study truth just for the sake of knowing the truth. We may know the truth from a historical perspective, but we fail to live it out in our lives (veracity).

[J D Hillberry]

Originally Posted by WyvernWench

Dear J. D. Hillberry,

You are the one that has the facts concerning the use, reproduction and copyright on your work.

Speculation, conspiracy theories and assumptions further neither the Scroll Saw/Wood Carving community nor you.

- www.CarvingPatterns.com

That is exactly why I have chosen to speak up in this forum. This has been going on far to long. When cought, an email goes out explaining a big mistake by an assistant. The images are taken down at that point and no one even knows about it. New images are easily taken to replace them. I want to finally shed some light on this to put a stop to it. Although I have their permission to tell their stories, the other artists involved will be commenting here too.

I apprecate the site admin for keeping this thread up. If not, your community will continue to be fooled.

J. D.