I Hate Computers

[Old Dude]

Betty...

Sorry to hear about your problems. The thing about computers, and you're experiencing it, is you get comfortable USING one, get dependent on it for many things, then when it quits working (and they all do) you stare dumbfounded at it, shout work you stupid computer work, it doesn't, and you helplessly realize that you don't know what to do next. Except call someone to whom you are a customer number, and hope that in the end you aren't out the cost of a new computer. I quietly refer you to my previous post.

It's good you have hubby to run interference for you, since you're probably way too young to suffer a coronary. Something I've learned from friends is that computer techs are used to tuning out irate customers. It's just as effective to go outside and hurl invective at the maple tree in your front yard (or whatever happens to be out there). You are the victim of a system...get used to it...or not, doesn't matter. It is what it is.

My suggestion is to work through this "covered by warranty" scenario, letting hubby run interference, and get your computer back to working condition. Since you have backups of your data at least your hard work is not lost. I'm not exactly sure what you mean by a recovery disc...my guess is that it's supposed to slam the operating system (ie, XP) back on. This CD should have been included with your initial purchase...look back through that stuff. If you don't have one, I would hope that the vendor would do it so you're at least back to where you were when you bought the computer (since I build my own I haven't had to deal with some of these insane issues). On the other hand, Microsoft has been getting pretty strict about linking operating system serial numbers to users so maybe the vendor is prohibited from doing this...or at least is supposed to initially act like he's prohibited. Maybe a strong approach from hubby will correct this. In my opinion, if the vendor nuked the original disc and sold you a replacement, installed and tested, it should have the operating system on it. Nothing short of this would be acceptable. As far as drivers...well, this might be a blessing in disguise (I'm assuming you mean printer, scanner, etc.). Those are all available on the internet for download, and often you'll get something more up-to-date than the one that came with your peripheral. I almost never install the driver that comes with a new peripheral...go to the manufacturer's website, download the latest, and install that. No worries there. Even with a recovery disc you won't get some stuff back...whatever is required to connect you to your isp for example. Any customization you did to IE or whatever browser you use. All your applications will have to be reinstalled (ie, Photoshop, Sketchup, etc.). Any customization you did to Office (Word) is lost. All this is fairly traumatic. In the past I've found myself wanting to get my hands around Bill Gates' neck and shake him til his teeth fell out, even though I knew it wasn't really his fault personally.

Now after you're back operational, start looking into how you can do your own thing. You can take your time, but don't take too much time because your "new" computer will crap out again...guaranteed. There's a lot to learn, but it's not rocket science, and when you're there you're free. Ask Dragon.

Cheers.

[GrayBeard Phil]

Originally Posted by Old Dude

{snip}..... I'm not exactly sure what you mean by a recovery disc...my guess is that it's supposed to slam the operating system (ie, XP) back on. This CD should have been included with your initial purchase...look back through that stuff....

If you don't have one, I would hope that the vendor would do it so you're at least back to where you were when you bought the computer .....

On the other hand, Microsoft has been getting pretty strict about linking operating system serial numbers to users so maybe the vendor is prohibited from doing this.....

Even with a recovery disc you won't get some stuff back...whatever is required to connect you to your isp for example.... All your applications will have to be reinstalled (ie, Photoshop, Sketchup, etc.). ....Any customization you did to Office (Word) is lost.

Yes, a recovery disk is part of all that packing stuff when you got your computer.

Be aware, if you have lost that Operating System recovery disk, or the recovery disk is damaged so it cannot be used, some computer repair stores will expect you to purchase an operating system in a box (like VISTA,) I do not know Best Buy's policy. And no, you don't have to buy an operating system, you could through the learning curve for Linux. (if you only HATE computers now, trust me Linux is not for you!)

Micro$oft is a heartless money grubbing semi-monopoly with delusions of grandeur that you whole life is controlled by the technology gadgets cluttering up your life. In short, Best Buy (even for a warranty claim) cannot replace the OS recovery disk. Your displeasure is a gnat's bite compared to Micro$oft's bite on a large corporation like Best Buy. Apple is only slightly better, but not by a whole lot.

And Yes, you will have to spend time re-installing all your applications and ISP connections.

All of this is how the consumer computer industry grew up over the last 10-15 years. Really, this is how many big box consumer electronics stores treat the retail customer. No joke, last time I had a hard drive fail under warranty, all I got was being handed a hard drive in a box. That was it, not even installed; of course this was a few years ago. I could have of course paid money for some one to spend 10 minutes with a screw driver, but mostly the buyers and users of computers back then were tech savvy and didn't need assistance to install a hard drive and reload the OS.

Your anger seems to be rooted in the disconnect between your normal expectation on how a retail consumer should be treated, and how an entire industry grew up, even if did grow up too fast. The minion you will be talking to will not be able to change policy for a large faceless and uncaring corporation. Just not going to happen, as too much history industry is on their side. Oh, and do expect they won't turn over your computer until you surrender your loaner computer. With or without an operating system installed.

Phil

PS: Again, I do sympathize with your unfortunate problems.

[Old Dude]

Betty...

Looks like you have a couple of old-hide computer geeks chiming in here. My beard would be gray too if I didn't run the mower over it every few days.

I agree with Phil that a show of anger doesn't promise much in this situation. Microsoft is a powerful company...they could significantly reduce the national debt if so-minded. They make rules for their vendors, and their vendors say aye-aye sir. On the other hand the vendor is free to eat some cost himself, which is why it's at least worth a try for hubby to show some insistence...that is if you can't find your XP slam disc (recovery disc). Of course finding it is preferred.

I see that Phil likes Linux. I used to have it installed on one of my computers, and if you're a Unix person it's fun. It's a Unix workalike that is Open Source and freeware (well, that's kind of the same thing). But I also agree with him that you would no doubt find it exasperating. Steer clear. I don't mess with it anymore...woodworking is more fun and rewarding. The sad truth is that the software folks who develop applications like Photoshop, AutoCAD, CorelDRAW, etc., make them run on either Windows or the MAC, and often both. But not so much on Linux (slowly, slowly it's happening). Basically, we're stuck with Windows. So my recommendation is to stick with Windows (ie, XP), and if you're going to spend time learning something in this arena learn to build and service your own computer.

A comment about XP vs Vista. When I was a software guy we always knew that the release of a new product would mean lots of problem reports...especially for a piece of software as complicated as an operating system. No matter how much effort you put into testing, everybody who uses it will find ways to flush out the bugs...and there will be many. This is good in one sense...the product gets better and better as time goes on. But you know what they say about being able to tell the pioneers by the arrows in their backs...current Vista users have multiple arrow wounds. I wouldn't touch that thing with a 10-foot pole for at least 3 years. Meanwhile Microsoft will play down XP, and eventually stop selling it because they NEED users to find the bugs in Vista...but the price for XP should slide downward until then. One other point...I used to use AutoCAD 2000, which ran fine on XT and Win95, but when I upgraded to XP and tried to install AutoCAD a popup informed me that this software didn't run on this operating system. Well, blow me down. Last thing I expected. I was able to cajole AutoCAD 2005 from my source, but I don't need that kind of shock. I depend on AutoCAD for my woodworking drawings. I will be reluctant to "upgrade???" to Vista for that reason as well.

So once again good luck, calm down, have a homebrew and watch the sunset. When you're ready, Graybeard and I will be happy to help you and hubby figure out how to free yourselves from this morass of computer repair dependency.

Cheers.
Ed

[will8989]

YAHOO! I found my recovery disc! In my safe just where I left it - next to the $75 I found there also!! I was told by Best Buy to bring down the recovery disc and they would reload it for me as well as all the backups they did for me. My son-in-law, who USED to work for them, can't understand why they wiped my harddrive. Anyway, I will go down there with a smile on my face tomorrow along with my recovery disc and have them load it. I can do the rest. And I will be buying an external harddrive for back up. If nothing else, a valuable lesson was learned - backup backup backup backup on external harddrives!! I spent the afternoon with my grandson which is much better than a homebrew.

Betty

[Old Dude]

Cool, dudette. Good on ya.

[Dragon]

Vista is not ready for the general public and stores around here are offering a free "downgrade" to XP with any purchase of a new computer.
Diane

[will8989]

Went to Best buy today with my recovery disc in hand, asked how long it would take them to install it, I was figuring 3-4 hours, they said 3-4 DAYS!! I said please give me my computer & I'll take care of it. They told me I couldn't do anything on my computer as it was wiped or something. Are you reading this? If so, they didn't wipe a darn thing as I haven't installed the recovery disc yet!! I think I know what the problem is: When you put in a cd or flash card or anything like, you have to go to "my computer" pull up the screen showing all those thingy's and click on the one you want to open. I believe that is where the software problem is. My neighbor said he would do it for me. Just glad I got my computer back!!

Betty

[Old Dude]

Wow, Betty, that is some serious misrepresentation of what they did. Did the guy have the "deer in the headlights" look? My suspicion is that he didn't really try to mislead you, he just doesn't know his butt from third base. Probably hired out of school, told get over there kid and make it up as you go along...wouldn't be the first time. 3-4 days only means you're not first in the queue, because depending on speed of processor, etc., slamming XP back on doesn't take all that long. My Ghost image backups slam back on in about 15 minutes from the second hard drive...from CD they can take over an hour. Of course if Best Buy committed to installing your applications that can add some time...maybe an hour or so. Anyway, glad to hear you have a neighbor who seems to know his way around this stuff...learn as much as you can.

Now...I'm not sure what the original problem was. This thread kind of started out as a rant against Best Buy, which I totally understand. But what did your computer do? Wouldn't boot? Couldn't find stuff (ie, file unavailable or some other useful message from Microsoft)? What? Here's the thing...disk drives have a spinup time, and they can't deliver the goods until they come ready. Normally the POST (power on self test) that every PC executes takes care of this (the stuff you see flashing by before the first blue screen). But sometimes not...particularly if a drive is marginal, or in the process of failing. It will work sometimes. Do not be comforted by this. It's just trying to fool you that it's not as close to death as it actually is. Take what you need from it and replace it while it still thinks it has you fooled.

Okay, another now...your recovery discs get you back to basic functionality. This is far from acceptable if you've been using your computer for as little as a month. You customize things, you install appications, etc. When you slam from a recovery disc you have to do all that kaka again...much of which you can't even remember. Look into Ghost 2003. It's available from free to about $35. I suggest 2003 because that's the last version of Ghost that is based on the engine developed by Binary Research. They were acquired by Symantec (ie, Norton stuff) and eventually the Binary Research engine was replaced, but in my opinion not surpassed. This is the last version that basically runs in DOS mode, which means that Windows is totally quiescent...no Windows bug can influence the reliability of the slam. I've used Ghost for years, including versions prior to the 2003 one, and it has never let me down. The purpose is to create your own recovery discs in however many flavors you desire. I have a Ghost slam after the basic XP install with drivers, another after I installed AutoCAD, another after I installed Photoshop, etc...I can look at my slam log and decide what I want my starting point to be if I ever have to go backwards. And believe me, without slams that going backwards part can take a few days and sand some nerve endings with 60-grit paper.

Interesting to hear about Dragon's "downgrade" to XP in her area. To me this an upgrade.

Cheers.

[GrayBeard Phil]

Betty:

The point of a Recovery OS disk is to boot the computer from the DVD/CD drive with absolutely no data on the Hard drive. You might be able to start your computer with no hard drive at all in your computer, just the DVD or CD.

BUT, you must set up the DVD / CD drive to be a bootable device. THAT, my friend is tricky, if it is not set up already to be bootable. So many computers disable the Boot to CD drive BIOS setting as an Anti-Virus step.

Your neighbor most likely can take care of that if you system needs it.

Phil

[will8989]

Well, I'm still here! The original problem was I lost my USB ports. I could use a regular mouse, but not one that plugged into my USB port. I couldn't use my flash drives, printer, which is usb, basically I lost my G drive. For some reason, I now have an L drive, removeable disc & J drive, MS/MSPro, whatever that is. When I insert a flash drive, my smart media, or try to put something on a disc, I have to go My Computer, open up the drive from there and then go on. It doesn't just come up by itself. I am thinking that is what needs to be reinstalled. I'll just have my neighbor come over and look at it for me and help me along. I'll ask him about the ghost thingy. I'm sure he knows what it is! Cause I sure don't!

Betty