Crafted vs Art—Artisan vs Craftsman

[Chase]

Crafted vs Art—Artisan vs Craftsman

This is a long post, so those without the patience or time for long posts please go away. If you’re interested, get a cup of coffee (or a beer) and read on.

This is not particularly in response to the post from Khalid called “My woodwork.” However, his posts and the responses were rather thought provoking and here are some more thoughts (unless they get censored or deleted by our managers) about crafting vs art vs machines vs computers vs whatever. As an aside, having been the recipient of the slings and arrows from member and moderator, I can sympathize with Khalid. But I digress.

Crafted vs art…craftsman vs artist. Where is the line? Is this just a problem for WV hillbillys like Niel Moore and me who just recently started calling it ballet instead of toe dancing. Steve Good may be there also. Steve, like Neil and I, doesn’t “measure twice, cut once” like the rest of you; he does it the WVa way…cut it long and kick it in place. hehehe

How many of us do not use powered devices in our scrolling/woodworking? Very few I submit. We have motor powered saws, computer programs for designing patterns, powered lathes, power sanders, etc. Kevin just got himself a drum sander (wish I had one, sounds like a really neat tool) but although it might take awhile, he could hand plane and hand sand his boards to thickness. So could we all. I buy mine already sanded to the thickness I need. We use machine-produced plywood for scrolling and stack cut our stuff to mass produce (on a limited scale). Compressor powered spray guns to finish and veneer cut from a computer programmed slicer to get the wood for our marquetry projects. Someone commented regarding computer-programmed woodwork of Khalid, that this type of work is banned from most craft fairs. I wonder why, isn’t it original? He says he made the machine (how many of us have made a scroll saw), wrote the computer program, and used original patterns. Sure wish I had his technical skills. Are projects generated by computer-assisted patterns from the AIBM software such as Coyote banned? Hmmm? The stuff I’d like to see banned is laser cut scrollwork. Are they cut perfect or what? Of course all my scrolling looks like it was laser cut but I once cut outside the line when I almost dropped my beer, but just that once. LOL Learned that from Knothead. Anyhow, hope you get my analogy.

In the first attachment you will see a fret saw (13” throat) and birds mouth. I used these (about a thousand years ago) for one of my first marquetry project (2d attachment). It’s in walnut and maple veneers and done from photos I took of my two sons. Didn’t even own a sander, scroll saw, or computer back then. Its hand sanded and lacquer finished with a brush. Although, far from being my best work, it’s one of the few displayed on the wall of our home for all to see. I graduated from that to an Xacto knife and then my 1st scroll saw; an AMT (they have been out of business for years) made before many of you were born. LOL I now have a 788 and would never go back to that primitive method of scrolling, marquetry, or intarsia.

Why do we do scrolling and other woodworking? To make money? Some do I guess and I wish them good fortune, but be careful. Most of us enjoy the challenge of creating something in an art or crafted form. Heard one of our folks say about a piece, “that won’t sell.” If you’re scrolling for profit it’s a valid observation. If you’re scrolling for fun, so what. I sell my stuff, but only to buy supplies and tools. I give more away than I sell. Let me digress again. I was an avid photographer. Pretty good one too. Won some contests (1st and 3d in an All Army contest (national level), 1st in experimental category (local contest); featured display (local art show), etc. Had some nice equipment (three formats; half frame, 35, and 6x6) and my own darkroom; all purchased in Hong Kong on an R&R visit in the 60s. Well oldest son was in college and we Army guys didn’t make that much so I was selling real estate on the side, had borrowed as much as I could on my life insurance, wife couldn’t work because of taking care of sick child at home, etc. So I tried to make some money with my cameras. Did ok too. Proms (best money maker), real estate and industrial photography (most fun), even did a wedding once (big mistake). Well photography became a part-time job, and not a hobby, with deadlines, unreasonable customers, etc. For me, turning a hobby into a business was a big mistake. Many can pull this off, not me. Never went back to it with the enthusiasm of before. Now I just do photos of family and friends and my wood working stuff; with a digital camera. Be careful when you turn a hobby into a profession. I envy guys like Aussie Dude who have both; a job in one phase of woodworking and a hobby in another wood venue. Someone said, “Find a job you like and you’ll never work a day in your life.” How true.

What’s your point Chase? No point, just a question: Where does art end and crafting begin? My logo used to read, “Crafted by Chase” but I changed it to “ScrollArt by Chase” Thought I could charge more for the stuff I sell to support my wood working habit; mainly schwibbogens and the Nativity Light. As another aside, that light is my big seller and I’ll share where the pattern is located in SSWC and some supply sources as well as techniques I’ve developed if anyone is interested. I’ve cut it so much I need something else for a moneymaker to cut between projects. Suggestions?

The other question is how much does the use of these mechanical devices/tools detract from our work, our craft, our art? At what point should the device deserve more credit that the artisan/craftsman?

Your thoughts and comments.

Submitted by Chase

PS Sorry for the humor. I’m on a self-imposed hiatus of posting jokes on this forum but sometimes I just can’t control myself and some humor slips in. Niel & Steve, I know you can take it.

PS-PS Is 1,273 views and 111 comments a record? Whew.




1-Saw.jpg

2-Marquetry.jpg

[PuzzledMoose]

I already had my cup of coffee in front of me so I read it all, Chase. Now I'm thinking ....


Interesting post ...

[BobD]

Definately a thought-provoking post!

Bob

[NancyK]

Hi Chase,

Good post with many, many valid & good points. Funny how life can be. I too am a photographer, and was beginning to sell some of my sports photos to teams. Your advise about turning a hobby into a business is well heeded...I now find with all the headaches of running a business I now just shoot photos for friends & family and if they pay me for it...good...if not...well I took the pictures for myself anyway.

[Steviegwood]

Hi Chase, some very valid points. I have seen a couple of people at shows calling their laser cut projects scroll saw art. That in my opinion takes away from the craft/art. I do sell a lot of my cuttings at shows and through word of mouth. Most all of my stuff is cut from solid wood and done one at a time. Most of the time I use 5/8" thick hard woods such as red oak, hickory and maple. The wood that I have is panels that have been put together from smaller panels so a lot of time you will see the difference in the grains where the wood is joined. I use a combination of computer programs and pencil & paper and eraser to make my patterns. When making a portrait pattern for a customer I will share several different styles with the customer and make changes in the pattern at their request until it is something that they want me to cut. Sometimes I do not really care for what they pick but it is not for me it is for them and if they are paying. I get some critics that are fellow scrollers trying to tell me to do something different at times but if that is not what my customer wants then I can not do that. I do like the advice that I get but it falls back to what the customer wants. I think that being able to take a photo and make a recognizable pattern from it is an art in itself. Some would just call it a skill but any skill if done properly could also be considered an art. Most of the people that I deal with do not know what is involved in making a fretwork project so they will look at it as if it is appealing to them and they want to use it to decorate their home with it then it is art. The ones who take the time to find out how it is done by drilling each whole and the threading the blade and cutting each individual cut then it is Your Crazy for selling it for that. But like most I get the ooh's & aah's and the I can make that remarks. Well enough rambling. Steve

[Pajaro]

Fretwork

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



This article is about design. For the viol consort please see Fretwork (music group). for stringed intrument manufacturing see Luthier.

This article does not cite any references or sources. (January 2008)

Fretwork is an interlaced decorative design that is either carved in low relief on a solid background, or cut out with a fretsaw, jigsaw or scroll saw. Most fretwork patterns are geometric in design. The materials most commonly used are wood.

OK this is what someones official definition of Fretwork is. My definition is "FUN" nothing else. I work a full time job to make a living. I personally do not plan on ever trying to make a living from fretwork.

When "FUN" becomes a job, it's no longer "FUN" That's just my opinion for what it's worth.

I don't think I will ever be a threat to anyone who is trying to make a living this way. I wish them all the luck in the world and hope dearly from my hart they do. I do consider myself an Artisan. Self proclaimed only.

I have a web site to sell my works. To tell the truth I have only sold 5 items in two years from it. I have sold some to co workers and other people local Thu word of mouth. I keep the web going because I am fortunate enough to be able to. Im thankful for that. It's just "FUN" for me.

When photography started calling itself art. Artist who worked with oil where calling photography junk. But it's still an art of a different media. Have fun with what ever you cut your wood with, whether it be a fret saw from the 1900's or a Greg super computer. Call it what you like.

[Jediscroller]

I'll tackle them one at a time:

"Crafted vs art…craftsman vs artist. Where is the line?"
I'm in the minority view on this one in that I don't feel that art is created with a pattern, period. I don't consider scrolling art, it's barely even woodworking when you get right down to it. Art is created with the heart and mind's eye, whereas scrolling is created with hand-eye coordination and a pattern.

"Someone commented regarding computer-programmed woodwork of Khalid, that this type of work is banned from most craft fairs. I wonder why, isn’t it original?"
That was my comment. Nope, it can be endlessly duplicated once the program is written. Virtually zero labor.

"Are projects generated by computer-assisted patterns from the AIBM software such as Coyote banned? Hmmm? The stuff I’d like to see banned is laser cut scrollwork. Are they cut perfect or what?"
The difference is that the end-product is still created by hand-eye coordination (i.e. craft), not computer language. A laser and CNC work on the same principal btw.

"Why do we do scrolling and other woodworking? To make money?"
Yep and I enjoy working with my hands.

"For me, turning a hobby into a business was a big mistake."
If you're not ready for the demands of running your own business, it can be a downer. For me, it was the best thing I ever did.

"Suggestions?"
Boxes!

"The other question is how much does the use of these mechanical devices/tools detract from our work, our craft, our art? At what point should the device deserve more credit that the artisan/craftsman?"
When the device does the actually cutting/carving as is done with CNC's, Lasers, Plasma Cutters, Water Jets etc.

"PS-PS Is 1,273 views and 111 comments a record? Whew."
Not even close, the taking aim thread has over 150 posts and over 5000 views. And the posts were from a variety of people, not one person wanting to hear himself talk.

[Barefoot1]

OK, I'll jump into this one as well. From my point of view, and this is only my opinion, what we do is both art and craftsmanship. And I'll tell you why I believe that sinc eI know you are sitting there waiting for me to do so. The skills we have developed to use the tools we own make us craftsmen/women. We practice a craft. What we do with the patterns and wood makes us artisans. Why? We select woods based on the design, the colors of the wood and how they compliment or contrast depending on what the project is and very often we change the pattern. We interpret the concept to create something unique and lets face it, no matter how accurate you are with a scroll saw, no two are exactly alike. (unless you stack cut but that is not what I am talking about.) I do sell some of my work but there is no way in heck that this will ever replace my high tech job out of silicon valley with benefits etcetera. What I sell does not even begin to cover what I have invested in it. And to be honest, I am pretty sure I would not want it too. I love to hear people oh and ah over my work, especially when I have either given it to them or sold it to them. I take pride in what I produce and I love to do it, it is my escape from my everyday real job. So my answer I guess is that I am both Artisan and Craftsman and I am willing to bet most of you are as well. But that my friends, is just my humble opinion.

[GrayBeard Phil]

...The stuff I’d like to see banned is laser cut scrollwork. Are they cut perfect or what? Of course all my scrolling looks like it was laser cut but I once cut outside the line when I almost dropped my beer....

Very good post, Chase.

And others have voiced most of what I would post also.

However, may I suggest a minor point:
CNC, Laser cutting, and Laser Engravers do have their valid place in the marketplace: Target, Wal-Mart, K-Mart, and other big box discount retailers. Places where the name of the game is mass production, interchangeable parts, and economy of scale manufacturing.

The problem we should be focused on:
CNC laser cutting, which is really machine made (even if human designed patterns,) should not compete with hand controlled cutting. This is not a level playing field. No human can compete with a machine.

We should want to halt (ban?) the sale of machine made products from craft / artisan retail events. This is just truth in advertising. If the customer wants a price based product, so be it. If the customer is willing to pay for eye-hand made products, and pay the added cost, also so be it. And the market place should be allowed to correctly identify the difference for the consumer.

Are Lithographic posters sold at street art fairs?

Phil

[Neal Moore]

LOL Chase!!! No harm no foul. I really don't cut boards too long the first time though. If I cut it too short I just measure from the other end and cut it again!!!!