My woodwork

[JohnB]

G'day Khalid,
I'm with Pete on this one.

You have some done some magnificent graphics there mate.

I have seen some very nice graphics done on a computer, my son is actually doing Certificate 3 in graphic art and publishing at the moment, at Uni, but have often wondered about the usefulness of all that work being on a computer.

Now you, have away to convert all them little pixels, floating around in cyber space, into something tangible, that will last for a lifetime.

And you made the machine that does all this, my hat's off to you.

[Jediscroller]

John and Pete,
I guess you guys haven't been burned by folks passing this type of stuff off as handcrafed at juried fairs and undercutting your prices by 50% or more. I've worked with CNC's for about 15 years, and yes, you do need to know programming but to compare it with handcrafted work is wrong. If you really like this kind of stuff, just talk a walk into any local Walmart, KMart, Christmas Tree Shops or Target and you'll have the opportunity to see hundreds if not thousands of examples of work created on CNC's (many of which were ripped off from legitimate crafters). While a CNC is a useful tool, it is by its very nature a mass production tool. Once the bugs are worked out of a design, the design is saved and can be duplicated essentially exactly an infinite number of times.

Personally, I'm currently debating the purchase of a CNC lathe as I have niether the time, talent or desire to learn turning but it would be a cost savings for the furniture side of my business. Of course, if I do go that route, I wouldn't dream of insulting turners by posting stuff that my computer did for me nor would I claim it was anything other than a computer produced piece of work.

As far as how difficult it is to run a CNC, just take a look at the popularity of the Carve-Wright and Craftsman Compucarves. Both are basic CNC's and just about anyone can run them out of the box. The same goes for shop bots, water jets and plasma cutters.

[Pajaro]

Ouch! Keven, I see your point completely. But you got to give the man credit to be able to engineer & and build this device. It is definitely something that I could never undertake. After all we use power saws, rather than hand held fretsaws. And can do things that a hand held fretsawyer would have never been able to do in a fraction of the time. I guess maybe the fact that I make my living with computers. I started in 1972 working with mainframe computers moving up to installing infrastructures for networking systems. And I could never design and build a CNC unit from scratch. Computers amaze me nearly as much as woodworking. I love woodworking but make a living with computers. Can't live with out ether of them. Give the guy a break. It is not the individuals that flood the market with junk, it's corporations that do that. And you will never be able to beat their prices. All we can do is enjoy our crafts. And accept the fact that the people who purchase what we make appreciate quality work. And we have the joy of knowing we created it. Of course Joy won't pay the bills, but we can always feel Mary.

[JohnB]

G'day Kev,
Everybody that is stuck in the past gets burned to some degree or other with new technologies.
Maybe "Stuck in the past" isn't the right terminology, but it will do for the purpose of this discussion.

I tend to just roll with the flow, and there will always be something there for me to do.

If cars were still being hand made, very few people would be able to afford them.

Word processors put typewriter companies out of business.

Computers put word processors out of business.

Making patterns on a computer enables you to sell them cheaper than if they had to be hand drawn.

Vinyl computer generated signs put a lot of sign writers out of business.

It happened to all these people and millions of others and if they were not to prepared to adapt they fell by the side.

Maybe CHEATS enter CNC cut items in craft fairs, but I'm bloody well sure Khalid never, not in one that you go to anyhow

I can build kitchens, fine furniture and cabinets and I spent 5 years doing an apprenticeship to learn the trade. Now there are blokes who recon they can do the same thing, self taught and they never had to do the time. They usually do it cheaper and rougher.

So everything is relevant mate. Just lighten up.

[Jediscroller]

Originally Posted by JohnB

G'day Kev,
Everybody that is stuck in the past gets burned to some degree or other with new technologies.
Maybe "Stuck in the past" isn't the right terminology, but it will do for the purpose of this discussion.

I tend to just roll with the flow, and there will always be something there for me to do.

If cars were still being hand made, very few people would be able to afford them.

Word processors put typewriter companies out of business.

Computers put word processors out of business.

Making patterns on a computer enables you to sell them cheaper than if they had to be hand drawn.

Vinyl computer generated signs put a lot of sign writers out of business.

It happened to all these people and millions of others and if they were not to prepared to adapt they fell by the side.

Maybe CHEATS enter CNC cut items in craft fairs, but I'm bloody well sure Khalid never, not in one that you go to anyhow

I can build kitchens, fine furniture and cabinets and I spent 5 years doing an apprenticeship to learn the trade. Now there are blokes who recon they can do the same thing, self taught and they never had to do the time. They usually do it cheaper and rougher.

So everything is relevant mate. Just lighten up.

John,
I'm by no stretch anti-technology. I can appreciate everything you pointed out. This is why I'm debating the purchase of a CNC lathe for myself. A CNC is a great tool if you have no talent in what you're trying to produce. I've actually been looking at multi-head CNC's as well for carving. In order to provide an income for my family I will likely need to push more wholesaling accounts and to gross the amount I would need that means production type equipment.
I will add one more to your list though:
With the age of computer graphics, why are their still artists who waste their time using a brush on canvas? A computer can perfectly emulate a painting and with the right printing equipment it's very difficult to tell the difference between an original print and a replica.

As far as lightening up, you're right, I do need to lose some weight, hehehehe.

[Khalid]

Wow...Great points...i have to take time to answer each....However I am thankful to all for participating in this interesting debate

No doubt..And I will never ever compare myself to you all great wood worker who still doing working by hand and producing articraft that are unique in style ...

You all saw my designs that i created with my hand... I have a mouse and computer software and my mind...drawing through mouse is not easy..we can't draw a straight line with mouse....

All those designs once finalyzed, then the second part is to generate the toolpath, I require the right size of cutter, its RPM, depth of cut, depth of cut per pass, feed rate and a lot lot more...

I also see the colour, grain direction of wood, its hardness/softness etc...

Then setting the wood on machine bed is also calculated...

hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm......but still doing that much I love to see the art created by you...so you always find me in your threads...

Best regards
Khalid

[Pajaro]

[quote=Jediscroller;129027]John,
I will add one more to your list though:
With the age of computer graphics, why are their still artists who waste their time using a brush on canvas?[quote]

I guess for the same reason a lot of photographers still use 35mm film, it is a different medium, a different art form... the saga continues.

[Khalid]

A couple of day ago i designed and carved a table. The material of the table is MDF. I used 12.7 mm 60Degree tool with 80IPM..Total time of carving and cutting took 2.5Hr's..
MDF is 12.5mm thick. It looks beautiful, but i still have to stain it and give the colour of wood

[f250]

Looks like after the coloring is all done, putting a piece of glass over the top is the way to go. Very nice

Tom

[JohnB]

G'day khalid,
That's a very nice looking table. I like the carving and I especially like the design.

Just goes to show, that MDF has it's place in the world