Taking Aim

[Marcel in Longueuil]

Hi Gill,

"Stewards' Enquiry" I presume that's related to a horse race. (the hurdle & handicap are my clues)

I have no clue what it means, I'm thinking in the lines of a symbolic synonym to a video replay maybe?

But I wasn't trying to claim a win to anything, I was merely stating that I seem not to communicate my ideas very well.

Regards,
Marcel

[Gill]

Hi Marcel

I was just trying to apologise to you for having overlooked your comment about negative space. That's all. It was my way of saying that both you and Kevin had made valuable contributions to the thread but I had not given you in particular the credit you deserved. I thought the analogy of a horse race was a good way of saying, 'sorry' without getting too heavy - a bit of levity can sometimes keep a conversation going, and I thought this was a conversation that had not yet run its course.

Gill

[Neal Moore]

I have been following this thread with great interest and, I must add, admiration for Gill. What I'm seeing is an up and coming pattern designer who intends to "design" rather than "convert". I call myself a designer but even in the in the loose interptetation of the word I do nothing more than convert photographs into scrollable patterns that closely resemble the original. I don't really design anything in as much as I already have someone else's idea and composition in front of me when I start. My dog is really the only "original" pattern I ever designed because it was made from a photo that I snapped. I look forward to seeing your designs Gill.....Keep asking tough questions!!! I'm benefiting from them as I'm sure are a lot of others here.

[Jediscroller]

I was hoping some others would chime in as well Gill. But....
Thanks for the pattern idea (horse race, hehehe).

Oh, and thanks a ton for starting this thread, I'm with Carl on this one. It's forced me to think about my own patterns and why some seem better than others.

[CanadianScroller]

I believe many of us consider scrolling as a hobby.
The term scrolling covers almost all of the pattern styles.; fretwork, intarsia, segmentation, marquetry and compound cutting.
Each of us has our own specialty that we feel comfortable with and some of us will slip in and out of other styles.
This all gets very specialized in the woodworking world, just like turning is to lathes , scrolling is to scrollsaws.
The reason I mention this is because there are so many other aspects of woodworking. Some projects will contain both scrolled and turned pieces along with router edgings and dados etc.

Gill has brought up so many good questions and points here that are making us think, it is easy for us all to think, it is harder for us to articulate our thoughts on here.

When developing a piece of art we work in a two stage process. We visualize something in our head, work the visualization around till we get something that resembles the original thought or idea.

Once we are satisfied with that concept we can start on step two, creating that visualization in the real world, perhaps with pen and paper, or computer or even freehand with the saw.
The design will develop as will our skills to put this image to final product.

If we observe some of the rules that define what is a correct layout and design we can get a pleasing end result.
Take a look a Norman Rockwell. His pictures a such a perfect layout that many of us want that Norman Rockwell Thanksgiving that will really never exist in the real world.

This is visual eye candy, as the people in the picture look at each other your eye is caused to follow all over the page.


There will be times when we throw caution to the wind and bend some of those rules. MC Escher is a master at this.

This is just one example of his work, it still contains perspective, light and shadow, edges and contours.
Once we understand what these rules do and how we can apply them, then we can learn how to bend them.
Either way the Art of scrolling will flourish.

The art will come from inside us, the scrollsaw will be the tool, just as a brush is a tool for a painter. This doesn't not have to be a flat piece of art, it can be a three dimensional sculpture or a practical project that serves a function.

Gee Gill, you have unleashed a creative river here. I hope others grab the swim suites and go for a ride.

[Neal Moore]

Carl... Just maybe, that's what Norman rockwell saw in Thanksgiving. Maybe he tried to express to the rest of the world "this is how I feel about this". I might be way off the mark but I think this is exactly what Gill is trying to get across. Design a pattern that evokes visual pleasure without feeling. When I look at Rockwells interpretion of Thanksgiving, I can't help but have strong feelings which remind me of days long past. My family, as I once knew it, is long gone. Thanksgiving, and all the wonderful memories I have of it are still with me, even though I will never experience it the same way ever again. As Toni said, " I don't know that I can do that" when designing a pattern and have it be true art. I feel that even what I do, even though it isn't truly original, expresses what I feel about God's creatures. I suppose that however we, as designers, develope our patterns is part of the way we see what we see. Don't know that this makes sense Carl... But your post brings back some very fond memories...I would only hope that someday something I create would evoke the same feelings that the little attachment you posted evoked in me!!!

[Gill]

I love Rockwell's pictures. I can't say why, but I do . He always seems to create a balanced composition and he uses light very cleverly. Look at how few colors there are. The flesh tones are very similar to those of the turkey and the hair colors either match the patron's suit or the wallpaper. He also emphasises shapes by using shadows, very much in the way that a scroller can.

There's not an awful lot to this picture when you break it down, but it would be very difficult to adapt it into a pattern for a scrollsaw. If you were to process it through a computer program, a lot of the warmth would be lost and it would become merely light and dark. The challenge for the pattern designer is, to my mind, to find a way to make the picture more than a contrast between light and dark. You could capture that quite comfortably but the sheer detail it would create might be overwhelming.

Let's not forget that Rockwell was a master of his medium. He would have designed his picures with a view to exploiting the opportunities it offered. Wood doesn't offer the same opportunities, not if we use it in the same way that it's traditionally been used by scrollers. That's not to say scrolled woodwork is a lesser medium than painted canvass, it's just different. It probably has a greater affinity with relief carving than it has with any other art form:





I'm beginning to wonder that if we're to create work in the style of artists, we need to find new ways to manipulate our medium. Yet we also have our pallettes! We can create color using intarsia techniques. So the challenge would become one of introducing intarsia into a traditional scrolled picture. I'm not sure that would work, although perhaps it could be made to. Rather, I think a pattern designer needs to consider the implications of this hybrid and then work out how to incorporate it into the design. Indeed, perhaps Rockwell's picture would be better served through being rendered exclusively in intarsia.

If that's so, then we're a step closer to identifying when we should be designing for one woodworking technique and when we should be designing for another. And that's progress . We now know that intarsia captures the warmth of color at the expense of detailed light manipulation; I don't think we would have been able to articulate that at the start of this thread, even though many of us would have instinctively been aware of it.

Gill

[Jediscroller]

First off, it looks like Neal and I's posts crossed on the way in. Neal, I don't consider using a computer any less designing than using pencil and paper. Just a different tool to the same ends, a workable pattern.
Carl, I'm glad you brought up MC Escher, he's one of my favorites. I would love to capture in wood what he did in canvas. I think his style of art can emulated through wood though I haven't quite managed it (yet).
As far as examples, The Last Supper is an excellent example of something that has been done in canvas, intarsia and fretwork and all are quite powerful in their own right.
I can easily envision the 2 you posted Gill being interpreted in fret or intarsia as well.
I'm really enjoying this whole conversation...let's keep it going. It reminds me of a conversation once during a chat with Sue in that we're in search of that 1 masterpiece. Perhaps that's been true of all that have come before. It explains why we experiment with designs as well as doing so many different ones. As Neal said, if I could create that 1 piece that evokes the emotions the way the Rockwell piece did for him I'd be a happy camper.

[Gill]

I don't think my previous message managed to convey something else that struck me. Many artists produce a final picture only after having made several studies of the subject first. Often, these are little more than cartoons but they give the artist a better understanding of his subject.

I wonder how many of us would be prepared to go to the trouble of cutting studies as a step along the path to a final pattern? I bet most of us just see a picture and think, "That's something I'd like to cut". So we cut it. However, some of you will be aware of my penchant for dancing and I find that each project I produce informs subsequent projects. I'm developing a 'feel' for expressing dancing in wood (or MDF ). I doubt it's enough that we should have only one input such as a particular picture or photograph if we're to design a good pattern.

Gill

[Marcel in Longueuil]

I think there are three approaches to this Gill,

The first one is the Flash approach, where all of a sudden you subconscious pushes into your conscious mind an image of the complete solution. And this happens at a time where you won't even be thinking on the subject.

The other most common approach is the one you stated: the baby step approach, where you start one design, and redraw it differently for a long time until you arrive at a result that satisfies you by adding or removing details, by changing one line or many. It is an evolutive process, like starting from a sketch to the final product.

The last one is the elusive stumble approach, where your subconscious makes you do that little modification that makes everything fall together, when you were almost there but not quite and couldn't figure out what was wrong.

I still think you need to pay your dues and put in the hours to learn the basics of design if you want to achieve a viable result. Whether you are self-taught or take courses, you still need to know what works and why if you want to be able to repeat your successes and avoid repetitive failures.

You then have to develop your style, what you like isn't necessarily what I like. And you need to figure what your market niche will be: do you want to design patterns targeted toward a mass audience, or do you want to design only patterns that you like personally, the two may not be compatible as much as you wish. You need to figure what your audience may be: for example Gill's dancers may have a broader selling potential than a portrait of a car racer.

If this were simple issue and process all artists would be rich.

Regards,
Marcel