What do you think?

[Back2Jake]

Sue Chrestensen and I have been fortunate to have been contributors to SSWC for some time now. Occassionally we get some feedback from readers of the magazine and it usually goes one of two ways. The more traditional scrollers, who focus primarly on the use of the saw, generally stay away from our projects. They want projects they can reproduce as they see them in the magazines.

Then there are those who want MORE to do with their scrolling and are asking us "what's next". What comes AFTER the cuts are made? Some might not consider these scrollers, "scrollers". Sue Chrestensen and I have both been told on occassion that we are not scrollers. The first couple times I was told this, I took offense, knowing full well how sharp I can get a cut. However, now I tend to agree. I agree I am not ONLY a scroller. I'm a scroller plus.

And there are others out there like us. Big smile. We will get email from people who want to design patterns for a special project, want a design for an art show entry, are looking for other things to do with their saw ... experiment.

As a reader of the scrollsaw magazines, are you happy with the projects that you can duplicate, more or less, exactly as they are shown in the magazines? Or do you want MORE? Do you want to see what can happen AFTER the cut?

Ultimately, does contemporary art have a place in the scrollsaw community?

Take care
Toni

[Rolf]

The amazing thing about this tool (scroll saw) IS its versatility.
In my short time as a scroller I have done Complex Fretwork, Intarsia, segmentation, baskets, boxes, inlay. I have stained, painted and used natural wood colors and look forward to playing with some of the tecniques you and Sue use i.e. leather dyes. I am always looking for a new design that will challenge my skills and appeal to the eye.
Toni you and Sue present us with new directions that both appeal and challenge at the same time.

If I like what I see in the magazine I will try to duplicate it but sometimes it is nice to take the design as a starting point and tweak it to make it ones own.
If I wanted perfect clones I would get a laser.

I think Contemporary art certainly does belong in the scrolling community it is just another application and direction we can take if we are so inclined.

[CanadianScroller]

I have always like it when people push the boundaries and go outside the lines. I agree with Rolf that the scrollsaw is one of the most versatile tools in the shop. Although I do make many of my own patterns I like looking at other works for inspiration. Not necessarily scroll work. I would like to see some work done in non traditional materials too.
I think the strangest I heard of was Patrick Spielman's cutting frozen steaks for a BBQ.

Contemporary art has always been around, what was contemporary in the dawn of scrolling is now old fashioned, so yes I believe there is lots of room for it now.

[Jediscroller]

>>Ultimately, does contemporary art have a place in the scrollsaw community?>>
I certainly think it does, work like yours and Sue's and Dave Danchuck's come to mind right off the top of my head and I'm sure there are others.

I think I'm one of the exceptions to the rule as I don't consider myself a scroller or an artist. I'm just a woodworker who does a lot of work on the scrollsaw. I virtually never do anything for myself with the scrollsaw, it's purely a business tool for me. The things I do for myself rarely involve the scrollsaw as I far prefer furniture building. So for me, I look for things in magazines that I can duplicate.

Regarding Shannon's editorial, I think of the Arts & Crafts community as one entity. If you pick up a copy of the Crafts Report (one of the leading industry mags) you'll see fiber artists, turners, furniture, jewelry etc. but I've never seen any scrollwork. Why this is I'm unsure of but it would be nice if scrollwork was featured in this type of magazine. I think it would gain acceptance as a viable medium if it did. I think much of it has to do with this being seen primarily as a hobby and not a true vocation (by the Arts & Crafts industry as a whole). There are several very high-end fairs locally here that I can't get into with the scrollwork as they don't consider it either an art or a craft. I've been working on high-end boxes to try to break into these as that type of work is accepted. The upside though is that I was asked to join a local artist's guild recently which I accepted as it opened the door to a couple other high-end fairs which is a big plus.

The bottom line is that I think as long as the stigma of this being "just a hobby" persists, it will be very difficult at best for any of us whether "traditional scrollers" or those trying to push the envelope to gain any type of acceptance in the arts & crafts industry.

Of course, I could be totally wrong with all of the above too, hehehehehe.

[jigsue]

Here! here!

I have been scrolling for around 12 years, now and still haven't found a style. I have made jigsaws, toys, pictures, fretwork frames. boxes. I take a little book around with me and jot down ideas wherever I see them, I take my camera everywhere and photograh shapes, trees, etc. I do often use patterns found in my collection of books and magazines when they are apposite for their purpose (why re-invent the wheel - I am not a brilliant artist, myself), although I tend to adapt them in some way to make them more "mine". However, when "playing", I try new things and new ideas, sometimes based on something I have seen, often not. They don't always work, lots of stuff goes in the bin. But is that not what ALL art is about: pushing boundaries? And when it is successful, WOW! It is much more satisfying. There is room in the world for the traditional, safe stuff and and those who stick to this, but room too for the "off the wall", quirky and contemporary. To each their own.

As for Kevin's comments on non-acceptance as artists, perhaps a reason for this is that many of the popular, more traditional patterns are replicated and shown so often, that it is obvious they are duplicated from the same patterns - woodwork, not original art. By exhibiting more contemporary pieces, it may show that some scrollers are indeed artistes! Go for it!

Sue

[Plaquerd]

Toni
First, I love scroll sawing in ANY form. Why should there be limits or boundaries on any form of "art"? I think one of the problems is people sometimes only "see with their eyes", every once in a while it's good to close your eyes and "see with your mind".
I don't consider myself as an artist, I just do what feels right for me. There are many things that effect the end result of a piece, choice of species, grain pattern, thickness of the wood etc.
When cutting any project I don't think about how the piece is cut, I think of how it will look when the cutting is complete, modifying it as I go to my own liking. I've tried many different methods of scrolling, segmentation, fret work, 3D etc. I haven't found one that keeps my interest to the point were I say, "this is the only thing I'll do from now on". Experimentation and trial and error are our means to grow the art/craft of scroll sawing.
There will always be a place for "traditional" scroll work and there certainly is room for "nontraditional" as well.
So yes I do want more.
Dave

[Gill]

Heretics! You should all be heartily ashamed of yourselves. Anything which isn't letter-sized (A4 for Europeans) and requires the use of any other tool except a drill for cutting pilot holes is the work of Satan and ought to be burned in the fires of Hell.



Gill

[thecopperfish]

I think contemporary art MUST have a place if we are going to pass down our "art" or "hobby" (however you think of it) to the next generation. I personally think it must evolve or it will die out as we die off. As you look at other aspects of the art world, music world, etc., these are constantly evolving. I believe inovation is a must for anything to survive and grow. I get tired of seeing the same old things, whereas something new and fresh always sparks my imagination, and causes me to think. I guess it depends on if you most enjoy the mechanics of running the saw or if you most enjoy the finished art. As for me, I like to saw, but my favorite part of every project is putting on the final finish. The sawing, sanding, shaping etc. is just a means to get to the final finishing. All that being said, I like inovation and yes, I want more.
Chris

[GrayBeard Phil]

Toni:

(Sorry, I am waiting for a repair man to show up at my door, so this will be a really long post.)
***Please see Post Script Note at bottom***

I like to look at the items on your web site. I like to skim the articles you and Sue publish in SSW&C. Will I ever do any of your projects? I most likely will not. Just not my cup of tea, for now. But lord, do I like to look at your artistic creations.

Your original post on this thread, IMHO, was asking three questions:
-Should a magazine like SSW&C publish magazine articles that go way beyond basic scroll saw projects?
- Should an Artist who creates for a scroll saw be classified as a scroll sawyer artist, or as a creative artist using a medium of scroll sawed wood?
- Just because I might not do a project like yours, should this affect what you do or don't do?

My response is: maybe - maybe not, don't know, and NO!

Fox Chapel makes business decisions for its own reasons. The rest of us can only speculate. But it is their decisions, for their sales and their profits. Nothing personal to you, Sue or your talents. They have a target audience in mind to sell their magazines to. They should make decision to that targeted readership.

But as some point you need to grow out of where you are. Expand beyond the nest. For starters: try to publish your work in Fine Woodworking magazine by Taunton Press. That Magazine is where fine artist in woodworking publish their work. FWW has done several articles on scroll saws and high end artistic work in the past.
https://www.taunton.com/
FWW will not publish non-originally designed work, nor projects that just show off scroll saw technical proficiency, like classical Victorian Fretwork. It must be something on the artistic order of that lady on your home page. If you want to express something using color and dyes, FWW is the proper place for that level of artistic expression.

BTW: Once Meet an Interior Decorator (capitalized letters implicit in her voice) who told me back in late 1980's that she would not recommend any artist in woodworking to her clients unless the artist or artisan had been first published in Fine Woodworking. Period. Gave me a three drink lecture (my cost) on her clients need to have braggin' rights to the objet d' arts they commission Interior Decorators to find.

And the best way to get published in a high end magazine on the order of Fine Woodworking is to be Unique and show not only technical knowledge on how to use the tools, but have artistic visions you are using the tools to express.

(what follows is just an opinion, please don't take it too seriously.)
Now back to your Web site and that lady on the home page. See, this is where I think you, Sue, and other Intarsia artist are missing something. All the pieces of wood are sanded smooth where they join other pieces of wood. Try to visualize the following: on your lady's skin, keep the joining wood smooth (we're talking skin here) but her outer garment could be left with the tool marks of carving gouge with a large sweep. (You don't have to carve the wood with a gouge, just leave the tool marks.) The dark woods, with the tool marks, give the impression of coarse cloth with will be against the soft skin of the lady. It is only the edges of the wood that needs to be tool marked.

(For everyone else reading this-)
Take the following challenge: Pretend some person asked you to design an Intarsia piece with a dog in full snarl with teeth showing, with the words below the dog "Did you say 'Soy' Berger?"
Now, what breed of dog do you envision?
Would the joining pieces of wood for the fur on the dog's muzzle be rough with tool marks from gouges? Or smooth? Would dog breed matter?
What about the smoothness of the wood where the teeth join the jaw line gums? Real smooth right?

(back to Toni-)
Gosh, I am really getting off topic. Should you continue with your growth as an artist? My response is yes.
Should you continue to join us at this web site? Yes
Should you continue to submit articles to SW&C? Yes
Can you expect rejection by SW&C because your article doesn't fit their readers? Yes
Should you try to submit articles for higher end artistic magazines? Hell, Yes
Are you prepared for the high level (quantity and depth) of criticism that will occur when you publish in a high end magazine both for artistic and technical reasons? good question, eh?

Got to go.

Phil
{edit}
P.S. Toni and Sue: you moved your art work "Every Woman" on your web site (or where I thought it was on your home page) which is the art piece I was referring to in my long post. My apologies

[millwab]

Originally Posted by Gill

Anything which ... requires the use of any other tool except a drill for cutting pilot holes is the work of Satan and ought to be burned in the fires of Hell.

Boy-oh-boy, I sure hope Gill isn't judging my entry in the design contest