What do you think?

[Back2Jake]

Originally Posted by Gill

Heretics! You should all be heartily ashamed of yourselves. Anything which isn't letter-sized (A4 for Europeans) and requires the use of any other tool except a drill for cutting pilot holes is the work of Satan and ought to be burned in the fires of Hell.



Gill

LOLRH, ah stated as only Gill can!

[Forester21]

Originally Posted by Toni Burghout

"In the last issue of SSW&C, Shannon said in her editorial that "We're going to explore ways to connect the scrolling world to the broader arts and crafts field."

In light of recent events, I suspect the term "broader arts and crafts field", isn't exactly the same thing as you imagine Gill. Through discussions with others, it's become obvious that the word "art" has to be removed from the word "craft" in any context if you want to change the audience.

As a reader of SSWC, do you think Shannon (SSWC) will be able to make that connection?

Exposing the art world to all that can be done on a scrollsaw has been the focus of Chrestensen Burghout Designs since it began. As you can imagine, Sue and I would absolutely love to see someone answer the door we've been knocking on.


Take care
Toni

I'm not sure what you are getting at Toni? Are you saying those who create "crafts" can't (or won't) also create "art"? and that there is no room in the magazine for both?

As one who cuts more of the "craft" aspect I do find myself drawn more and more to what I consider "art" - your's and Sue's work, some intarsia, and the artist who carved portions of the scrolled, fretwork design for some examples. I think there is room in SSWC for both - in that it may encourage those of us who started out in the "craft" cutting to expand and move towards some of the other works.

Theresa

[I-saw]

I think the versatility of the scrollsaw is not explored enough. It is a machine that all kinds of artists could benefit from trying.

I think perhaps because it is so versatile that most sawers confine themselves to one type of work, be it intarsia, portraits, making boxes, etc. Personally, I'd like to try cutting other materials such as metal & plastics, I just don't get round to it.

I've not read every post on this thread, but I wondered if anyone ever scrolled a portrait with just a live model to work from, like the old fashioned silhouette artists who would cut a silhouette with scissors from a piece of paper whilst studying a live person (like a street artist draws a sketch).

It sounds unlikely, but I wonder if any scrollsawer tried this?

I can't remember which artist described drawing as "taking a line for a walk", but isn't scrollsawing more or less the same idea, albeit with far less freedom than a pencil or brush?

On the subject of art/craft, I think the real difference between the two is freedom...using a saw or any tool restricts expression. The art world, particularly today, seems to be as much about ideas as technique. There is an emotional barrier between art & craft, art has always been about conveying meaning in the work, whereas craft is more concerned with technique & tradition.

The problem with the word "art" is that it means so many different things, whereas "craft" is far more defined.

[minowevie]

I read back , and I am still lost. this has to be a joke. if not. well. mmmmmmmmmmmmmm your friend Evie

[Back2Jake]

No Evie, this thread wasn't intended as a joke.

Sorry you're lost. Sue (Chrestensen) would tell you to turn left. I'd tell you to stay in one place till someone finds you. But recently learned that doesn't work in the mall when everyone you are lost from decides to stay where they are at till You find THEM. D'ah!!!!!!!

Back to the question(s), What do you think - Ultimately, does contemporary art have a place in the scrollsaw community?

Take care
Toni

[Chase]

Just lost about 2 pages of text so I'm starting over.

Toni, thanks for your post. It is very thought provoking and I hasten to respond. As you know, I joke around a lot with you and Sue but for a second I’d like to get serious.
First, not all forums are done for the right reasons. I am active in three and lurk around in several others. Momma Sue’s forum is somewhat inactive but I lurk out there and will comment when appropriate and sometimes when not appropriate. I was even kicked out of a now defunct forum and there are two others out there I know of that seem to be an ego trip for the founders. Their “my way or the highway” attitude leaves this old soldier with a bad taste. But I digress.
Keep up those articles and posts and pattern submissions. Scrolling is what most of us do and it takes on many forms. I use your stuff and Sue’s and Kevin’s and everyones to “schmoush” (a word I made up) patterns. I did a post in General Scroll Saw (its still there) some time back as a tutorial called “Pattern Making for Dummies” that received 154 views but zero comments. My point is not all of us are pattern makers. I bill myself a pattern designer and pattern enhancer. I aspire to be a pattern maker and me and my trusty Mac with Elements are trying. Someday???
Kevin, sells his stuff. His pricing guide is the best I’ve ever seen. I sell my stuff also to pay for my scrolling habit. My logo used to be titled “Crafted by Chase” its now “ScrollArt by Chase” so I can charge more. Just finished over $1100 in commissions for schwibbogens. Biggest order I ever had. This will pay to redesign my garage workshop and tune up my 788. Dang, there’s that digress thing again.
I’ve went on long enough. Just wanted to lend my support for what you do and encourage you to keep it up. Sue also.
Kevin, hang in there. You know what I’m talking about.
What’s a schwibbogen some of you ask? Go to my web page and click on my album.

http://home.comcast.net/~chasesmeeks...-by-Chase.html

If that doesn't work enter the following.

http://home.comcast.net/~chasesmeeks...-by-Chase.html

Chase

Oh, another aside. This forum really helped my grandson with his scrolling projects and making stuff for his Oma and Momma. He is so much involved in scrolling he raided his new dirt bike fund to buy a reconditioned 788. For a 13 year old, that’s amazing. I’ve already thanked you guys that helped him, but thanks again. Watch the bragging section of the spring issue SSW&C mag where he will have his picture with his first schwibbogen featured.

[Magpie]

/rofl@Gill

The definition of art is " the creation of beautiful or significant things." I view the separation of art and craft as an artificial construct. I think art is what you are trying to say, and craft is how you get there. Whether you play Mozart on a harpsichord or an electric guitar, it's still Mozart. Whether you cut wood with a scrollsaw or a buck knife, whether you like it plain, varnished, painted, or stained, what really matters is--did it say what you meant it to say? If it did, then I'd call it art. And here's a funny thing--the more I do only what I want to, and the less I care what other people think about it, the more stuff I sell ;p

As for contemporary art having a place in the scroll saw community, when I was first scouting around for a new hobby, my son looked at this board and said, "Isn't there anybody that does this but seventy-year-old white guys? I think there's a spot for you, Mom." Look how much the projects that people post have changed over the last few years--not to mention the patterns in the magazines and the books that get published. Contemporary art is entering the scrollsaw world whether the established community approves or not.

And Graybeard Phil already said most of the rest of what this post put in my mind

Edit: Not meaning that seventy-year-old guys can't be artistic, just that my stuff would probably be different!

[Croaker]

Designer I am not. Pattern maker I am not. However I love to take the patterns here and do some tweaking to make them little different. You just have to let your mind wonder and so many things can come from anothers pattern, I wish to thank both you women and the other artist also that truley make this scroller happy with new ideas.
So my anser is art belongs here too. After all we scrollers are artist we just use wood stead of canvas.
Croaker

[Tor]

I think that all art has a place. If someone likes something enough to make it, then someone else will surely like it enough to want to buy it (whether they do or not is another matter altogether). Certainly there is nothing wrong with experimenting with new forms of art done on the scrollsaw. Hats off

I just dug up this quote which seems relevant to this thread (perhaps other threads could have used it too).

"All truth passes through three stages.
First, it is ridiculed.
Second, it is violently opposed.
Third, it is accepted as being self-evident."

-- Arthur Schopenhauer

BTW, Chase, is your grandson a member of the forum? Someone like that might be one of the few people within 10 years of my age (my age and younger in particular) whom I would actually enjoy knowing (I seem not to have a whole lot in common with almost everyone my age)

Tor

[sawdustus]

Tony, I know that you and Sue should keep on publishing in SSWC and any other place you can. I also subscribe to FWW and every month they show off some fantastic original art posing as woodworking. So does every other woodworking magazine. James Krenov is just one of the many contemporary woodworkers (furniture makers) whose production is now in museums of fine art.

There is no reason why scrolling should not be considered fine art if the work is original, uniquely made and of high quality. What is fine art? My definition is that it is the result of highly skilled craftsman(woman) applying their highly developed physical talents to a unique vision using a common medium. A piece of fine art is, in the end, a piece of decorative work that many people consider beautiful and worthy of display.

What is the difference between the work of say, Jeff Zaffino, Judy Gale Roberts, yourself, all the fantastic intarsia and marquetry scrollers out there and any other "fine" artist? Answer, the medium. Wood is not usually considered to be a fine art medium. But a look at all the Shaker and Craftsman furniture and accoutrements that were once just utilitarian pieces and are now in museums of fine art ( the Met in NY for example) belies this. Fine art is in the eye of the beholder. Just because much scrollwork is made for decorative purposes most people do not see it as fine art. But...most of the work done by the great artists of the past ( Rubens, Rembrandt, Turner etc.) was done to decorate someplace. Even the ceiling of the Sistine Chapel was done to decorate it! and Michaelangelo's statue of David is just a stone carving that happens to show off the unbelievable carving skills and vision of the artist. I think I have seen intarsia and marquetry work that rivals them in quality. I am trying to ignore the religions overtones of much classical work and just concentrate on the artistic skill and vision involved.

Enough rambling. Keep up the good work and don't let the roast beefs get you down and remember that it is difficult to soar with the eagles when you are surrounded by roast beefs. (Turkeys are much too smart to be used as an insult.)

George