Taking Aim - Scroll Saw Woodworking & Crafts Message Board

Gill · 10-04-2006, 11:22 AM

What are you trying to do when you cut a portrait or landscape? Are you trying to explain to people what you see in the subject or are you trying to produce a faithful reproduction?

Do you believe that you can do both? If so, what informs your decisions about what you cut?

Gill

CanadianScroller · 10-04-2006, 01:40 PM

What a question for a waffling fence sitter!

To me scrolling portraits is much like drawing. There are times when a few simple lines can get the message out.
Other times more detail is needed.

Here are several renditions of the same subject.

This is one of Pedro's Designs

I believe there are times when the material we are cutting will dictate the type of pattern we will design. The audience who is viewing the finished art and the skill level of the scroller all play a part.

With portraiture and landscapes we are often taking multiple shades or colours and rendering them down to a monochrome scheme.
Both shadows and highlights can obscure details.
To me it is a balance of those areas. bringing up the details to define shapes but not letting the details take over the picture.

So I didn't answer your question but I did find some cool pics on the web!

CanadianScroller · 10-04-2006, 01:53 PM

I would really like to hear comments from Charlie D, Jeff Z and Gary B..

Hmm I wonder when designing portraits it helps if your last name starts with a letter that rhymes with "E"

Jediscroller · 10-04-2006, 01:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gill

What are you trying to do when you cut a portrait or landscape? Are you trying to explain to people what you see in the subject or are you trying to produce a faithful reproduction?

Do you believe that you can do both? If so, what informs your decisions about what you cut?

Gill

I'm sorry to say I don't think that deeply about it. The only thing I'm trying to do when I cut a portrait or landscape is finish it, hehehehe.
As far as how I choose what to cut, other than custom work (which I've had a ton of lately, I choose things that I think will be saleable in my market. I enjoy a nice challenge as well, either something with tons o' cuts or very intricate details. Other things that go into my choosing, what's popular at the time at the movies (fantasy, action, etc.),what customers have asked if I had any of (rock stars, Princess Diana, etc.), any pop-culture trends that I may be able capitalize on and what holidays are approaching. Virtually everything I cut or design is based on what I think will help the business.

Jediscroller · 10-04-2006, 07:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CanadianScroller

Hmm I wonder when designing portraits it helps if your last name starts with a letter that rhymes with "E"

Hehehehehehe! I sure hope so Carl!

Kevin D.

Gill · 10-04-2006, 08:18 PM

Shall I tell you what's making me ponder these questions?

A lot of the work I see here is cut to a very high standard - it's very impressive, and I do hope nobody thinks I'm taking a swipe at anyone. In general, scrollsaw portraits take a subject from a two dimensional picture and cast it into a three dimensional format whilst simultaneously reducing the color range. It struck me out of nowhere as being a rather odd thing to want to do!

If it was just a matter of converting a photograph into a two colored picture, then we'd need to do no more than merely print a copy onto paper and it would be ready to frame. Instead, we transfer it to wood and cut it out. Why? Okay, we like the look, but what is it about the look that is so appealing? Is it the medium? You rarely see portraits rendered in metal or acrylic. Is it the emphasis on the form that shadows created by the edges produce? If so, isn't it strange that we tend to use black material as backing board? Is it that two dimensional pictures might look attractive but don't capture the essence of a subject? If so, what enables the scroller to capture this essence? Could it be that there are elements in a picture which clutter it up but a skilled scroller can eliminate those whilst preserving the desirable traits and using the adaptation into a new medium as a reason/excuse for eliminating the undesirable traits?

On balance, I'm tending towards the explanation that it's the way that scrolling a portrait can clean it up. However, that doesn't account for some scrolled portraits can be very detailed yet still hold an attraction to some people. Nor does it really explain why wood is such a popular medium.

Perhaps I'm just rambling, but I would very much like to understand more about what makes our techniques work effectively.

Gill (whose surname also has an initial that rhymes with 'E'

)

earlinjax · 10-04-2006, 08:51 PM

I don't think there is one answer to this question. Unless, you say that the answer is, "That's how I interpret the subject." Could be simple or gonzo fretwork depending on the individual. That's why there are so many "schools" of art. I am as far from an artist as you can get, but, in nearly all my cutting I like to see the wood and the subject in co-starring roles. In the best work, I think, the wood should compliment the subject, and the subject compliment the wood.

I also like thngs that are just fun to cut.

EarlinJax

Jediscroller · 10-04-2006, 09:07 PM

Gees Gill,
You're making my head hurt. As far as why wood is such a popular medium, I suspect that it has to do with it's relatively inexpensive, easily obtainable and easy to work with. I suspect that people would be as enraptured with ones cut from copper or aluminum as well.
As far as designs go, I've been told that I have the "eye" from many folks. I'm not sure what that is, when it comes to patterns I just do them until I think they look "right." I often make changes as I'm cutting them to achieve what I envision.
What originally drew me to scrollsawing was the ornate Victorian work of the late 19th century, this could be one of the contributing factors as to why I enjoy detailed patterns so much.
OK, I'm done thinking for this week, hehehe.

Gill · 10-04-2006, 11:29 PM

Don't read this Kevin - it'll have your brain working overtime!

I like taking a bath. It's a chance to unwind and let my mind wander freely. I find that sometimes I gain unexpected insights into subjects that I've been pondering. The bad news (for Kevin) is that I've just got out of a bath

.

Photographs are wonderfully accurate representations of a subject, perfect in every detail unless you're as rotten a photographer as I am. So when we take a photograph of a subject we're capturing a perfect image of that subject. Right?

Possibly not. A camera has only one lens and captures all the edges very sharply, especially if you have the exposure and aperture set to facilitate this. However, human beings have two eyes and therefore two lenses. A camera is monocular whereas we are binocular. We actually see the edges of a subject from two positions and our brain superimposes them on top of each other, resolving the misaligned edges to give us a sense of distance, an appreciation of the three dimensional qualities of solid objects.

So when we see a photograph, our brains don't have to do the work of reconciling any misalignment. No matter how good the photograph is, our brains will struggle to accept it as being an accurate representation because it lacks the three dimensional quality that our brain expects to have to work with.

When we as scrollers restore an element of the third dimension to a two dimensional subject, we're giving our brains something which they expect to find in a realistic portrait.

Does this make sense? I've had a few more ideas on the subject which I'd like to explore a little further but it would be a bit silly to do so if the general concensus is that I'm barking up the wrong tree at the outset.

Gill

CanadianScroller · 10-04-2006, 11:52 PM

I have a feeling that Gill is reading the Drawing on the Right side of the Brain book and it is settling in!

I understand what you are saying Gill.
The way I see it, the camera is the tool. You compose the picture frame it in the viewfinder and snap a photo.

If all goes well, this slice of reality as you see it can now be viewed by your friends.
You chose the point of view, you chose the details that you wanted others to see.

When doing a scrollsaw pattern the same applies. If we leave out intarsia and some segmentation the 3D aspect is removed. You still have to choose what details you want in your composition, what you find important.

To me, in the example pictures I posted, I prefer the first one.
There is no beard, no nose, no mouth, there is no head or body.
The things that were important to the artist who designed the graphic were the crown of thorns, the drops of blood, the strands of heavy fallen hair and the eyes.
They say it all.

If I were doing a portrait of a train or an old barn I would include so much more detail because the character of the piece would be shown through the weathering of the materials in the picture.

So the amount of detail required is dependant on the relevance of the item in the picture.

That my ramble and I will get of my soap box... I think I can cut it up for scrolling!