What are the prerequisites for "Out of Copyright"?? - Scroll Saw Woodworking & Crafts Message Board

kerry_nf · 11-19-2007, 01:06 AM

Hey guys, check out this eBay listing:

Read down a bit and it says "Up for auction is a new CD (CD-R format) with 6 different scroll saw books that are out of copyright..."

What are the conditions that must exist for this to be true?

lacarver · 11-19-2007, 02:50 AM

Kerry,

I just went to ebay and I have no idea about the item. It seemed interesting but I am not sure exactly what is there and how it works. STRANGE for this cajun boy.

Tor · 11-19-2007, 03:33 AM

There are two ways for something to be out of copyright. The easiest is for the publication date to be before 1923, (I don't recall for certain whether it was Jan 1, 1923 or 1924 that rules changed; run a search and you will quickly turn up an answer there)

If the date is later, then you have to search to find out if the copyright was renewed (for some copyright dates, at least).

The last possibility is for the copyright holder to have granted the work to public domain.

This is U.S. copyright, other countries vary.

Tor

mdvt · 11-19-2007, 10:34 AM

My "guess" is that the books haven't been printed or re-printed in a while, therefore some sort of time limit has expired. Not sure what he means about being "the rights owner". Good luck if you decide to buy.
Mike

Jediscroller · 11-19-2007, 10:41 AM

If the work was published prior to 1978 and the copyright wasn't renewed it would pass into the public domain or as already stated works published prior to 1923 or willfully placed into the public domain. Based on the pics in the listing, these appear to fall into the former category.

Gill · 11-19-2007, 11:39 AM

Is there a way to find out if works published before 1978 have had their copyright renewed? If not, anyone could take a pre-1978 publication and claim that it's out of copyright. It would then be up to the copyright owner to spot that the publication was being sold illegally and take enforcement action.

I'm surprised the vendor claims to own rights to these documents. If they're out of copyright as claimed, I wouldn't have thought it was possible to assert any rights over them. Then again, this isn't my field of expertise.

Gill

Jediscroller · 11-19-2007, 02:11 PM

Gill,
I don't have the site handy here at work but there is a site you can go to (part of the US Copyright Office's site) and do a search to see if a particular work has been registered with the copyright office. If it's pre-1978, it would have to be registered in order to be protected unlike works created after that which are automatically protected once they're created. I'll hunt down the website when I get home if you're interested. You can search by author, work title and a few other things as well.

Magpie · 11-19-2007, 02:14 PM

Just as an aside (sorry for thread derailment) Flameka was listed on CNN/Money last week as one of the hot 100 home based companies, or something (I didn't really read it closely /blush). I bookmarked the site though to show my son, as I thought it was one of the better web sales sites.

http://flameka.com/default.aspx I just happen to own a Kitchenaid...Be sure to look in the picture gallery!

Jediscroller · 11-19-2007, 02:22 PM

I did a little reading and found that my information was wrong regarding works published between 1964 and 1977. Through an act of congress, the copyrights were automatically extended. This means that these works have a copyright of a flat 95 years. For works published between 1923 an 1963, they would've had to been renewed in their 28th year and these would be protected for 95 years as well. Post 1977 works are protected for the life of the author + 70 years. You can expect the laws to change again the next time a certain mouse is set to enter the public domain. This site goes into a little more detail regarding this as well as linking to a couple of sources for lists of renewed works in 1950 and 51.

pedrofret · 11-19-2007, 06:37 PM

Hi all,

jediscroller, you are totally right about that copyright extension. What I do not understand well is what will happen with works protected in the USA but not anywhere else, in particular in Europe, whose legislations have not been modified and most probably will stay the same. I would appreciate any light on this.

Pedro.

11-19-2007, 01:06 AM	#1
kerry_nf Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 727	What are the prerequisites for "Out of Copyright"?? Hey guys, check out this eBay listing: Read down a bit and it says "Up for auction is a new CD (CD-R format) with 6 different scroll saw books that are out of copyright..." What are the conditions that must exist for this to be true? __________________ Check me out on the web: http://www.kerrysworld.com

11-19-2007, 02:50 AM	#2
lacarver Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: North Louisiana Posts: 96	Kerry, I just went to ebay and I have no idea about the item. It seemed interesting but I am not sure exactly what is there and how it works. STRANGE for this cajun boy. __________________ Todd Hawk G4

11-19-2007, 03:33 AM	#3
Tor Mad Marqueteur Join Date: May 2007 Location: The "Green Side" in Hawaii Posts: 1,416	There are two ways for something to be out of copyright. The easiest is for the publication date to be before 1923, (I don't recall for certain whether it was Jan 1, 1923 or 1924 that rules changed; run a search and you will quickly turn up an answer there) If the date is later, then you have to search to find out if the copyright was renewed (for some copyright dates, at least). The last possibility is for the copyright holder to have granted the work to public domain. This is U.S. copyright, other countries vary. Tor __________________ I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it. - Thomas Jefferson Garden Island Marqueteur http://www.fineartmarquetry.com

11-19-2007, 10:41 AM	#5
Jediscroller American Crafstman Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Galaxy far, far away Posts: 3,164 Blog Entries: 6	If the work was published prior to 1978 and the copyright wasn't renewed it would pass into the public domain or as already stated works published prior to 1923 or willfully placed into the public domain. Based on the pics in the listing, these appear to fall into the former category. __________________ Kevin Scrollsaw Patterns Online Making holes in wood with an EX-30, Craftsman 16" VS, Dremel 1680 and 1671

11-19-2007, 11:39 AM	#6
Gill Fallen Angel Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 2,605	Is there a way to find out if works published before 1978 have had their copyright renewed? If not, anyone could take a pre-1978 publication and claim that it's out of copyright. It would then be up to the copyright owner to spot that the publication was being sold illegally and take enforcement action. I'm surprised the vendor claims to own rights to these documents. If they're out of copyright as claimed, I wouldn't have thought it was possible to assert any rights over them. Then again, this isn't my field of expertise. Gill __________________ There is no opinion, however absurd, which men will not readily embrace as soon as they can be brought to the conviction that it is readily adopted. (Schopenhauer, Die Kunst Recht zu Behalten)

11-19-2007, 10:34 AM	#4
mdvt The Dark Side Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Minot, Maine Posts: 209	My "guess" is that the books haven't been printed or re-printed in a while, therefore some sort of time limit has expired. Not sure what he means about being "the rights owner". Good luck if you decide to buy. Mike

11-19-2007, 02:11 PM	#7
Jediscroller American Crafstman Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Galaxy far, far away Posts: 3,164 Blog Entries: 6	Gill, I don't have the site handy here at work but there is a site you can go to (part of the US Copyright Office's site) and do a search to see if a particular work has been registered with the copyright office. If it's pre-1978, it would have to be registered in order to be protected unlike works created after that which are automatically protected once they're created. I'll hunt down the website when I get home if you're interested. You can search by author, work title and a few other things as well. __________________ Kevin Scrollsaw Patterns Online Making holes in wood with an EX-30, Craftsman 16" VS, Dremel 1680 and 1671

11-19-2007, 02:14 PM	#8
Magpie Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Gainesville, Florida Posts: 352	Just as an aside (sorry for thread derailment) Flameka was listed on CNN/Money last week as one of the hot 100 home based companies, or something (I didn't really read it closely /blush). I bookmarked the site though to show my son, as I thought it was one of the better web sales sites. http://flameka.com/default.aspx I just happen to own a Kitchenaid...Be sure to look in the picture gallery! Last edited by Magpie; 11-19-2007 at 02:17 PM.

11-19-2007, 02:22 PM	#9
Jediscroller American Crafstman Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Galaxy far, far away Posts: 3,164 Blog Entries: 6	Correction! I did a little reading and found that my information was wrong regarding works published between 1964 and 1977. Through an act of congress, the copyrights were automatically extended. This means that these works have a copyright of a flat 95 years. For works published between 1923 an 1963, they would've had to been renewed in their 28th year and these would be protected for 95 years as well. Post 1977 works are protected for the life of the author + 70 years. You can expect the laws to change again the next time a certain mouse is set to enter the public domain. This site goes into a little more detail regarding this as well as linking to a couple of sources for lists of renewed works in 1950 and 51. __________________ Kevin Scrollsaw Patterns Online Making holes in wood with an EX-30, Craftsman 16" VS, Dremel 1680 and 1671

11-19-2007, 06:37 PM	#10
pedrofret Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 55	jediscroller, you are totally right about that copyright extension... Hi all, jediscroller, you are totally right about that copyright extension. What I do not understand well is what will happen with works protected in the USA but not anywhere else, in particular in Europe, whose legislations have not been modified and most probably will stay the same. I would appreciate any light on this. Pedro. __________________ http://www.finescrollsaw.com

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