Finishing?

[VB...]

I am working with Cherry. How do I finish the wood after I am done scrolling?

I can sand it down to 320 and apply wood sealer and sand again. How do I creat that rich dark color with a glass like finish especially in the spots where I scrolled?

Do I use a sprayer? Do I spray everything afterwards?

Sorry more questions.... LOL

Thank you in advance
VB...

[Bill Wilson]

As usual there are many ways to skin the proverbial cat, but here are a few of my suggestions.

Sand to 220, that's far enough.

Forget the wood sealer, doesn't really add anything of benefit.

Cherry darkens naturally, over time and exposure to light. Be patient.

To help the natural darkening along, use an oil base finish. This can be accomplished in several different ways, but I like to start cherry off with an application of boiled linseed oil.

After that, apply the topcoat of your choice, noting that varnish or oil/varnish type finishes will compliment the BLO and maybe add a bit more to the darkening of the cherry.

I would avoid waterbased finishes as they don't tend to bring out the grain or color as much.

You could try shellac. Several different grades are available that will also add varying degrees of color and help enhance the natural darkening of the cherry.

Achieving a glass like finish is usually accomplished by rubbing out the final coat. This is where a higher grit sandpaper (320 and up) can be used. You can also use ScotchBrite pads or steel wool. Polyurethane and varnish need a few weeks to fully cure before a final rubbing. Shellac can be rubbed out next day. I'm not very familiar with lacquers, so I won't offer any advice on using them.

Gloss vs semi-gloss vs flat? Only you can make that choice, but I prefer a more natural sheen for cherry, so I tend not to use gloss finishes. IT's too shiny for my tastes. If you want a high gloss finish, use regular varnish instead of polyurethane. Poly can tend to look like plastic. Varnish, not so much.

Method of application;

Depends on the material you are using. BLO is wiped (or dipped) on, let soak, then excess wiped off. Same with oil/varnish mix products like Watco. Wiping varnish (just straight varnish, thinned 50% or so with MS) can be wiped on in light coats, not flooded. Let dry and then do it again. Takes several coats to build up the desired sheen, but is very easy to do and gives a more natural, "in-the-wood" look to the piece.

You can brush on the finish, but this can be a difficult method where there is lots of fretwork. Hard to avoid puddling and accumulation in the nooks and crannies.

Spraying is a good option if the piece is too big to dip or too detailed to brush. Spraying varnish is tough because the drying time means you can have a real mess with overspray and clean up. Shellac is easily sprayed, more so than brushing or padding, IMHO, especially for scroll work.

IN general, I think it's best to apply the finish when the piece is done. Most adhesives need bare wood to get a good bond, so finishing then assembling, can be problematic. It isn't always possible or easy to do that. You can mask off the areas that will take glue during assembly. Time consuming, but maybe worthwhile given the right circumstances.

Best advice I can give though is to test any finish you want to try on scrap. If you aren't familiar with a product or method in your finishing schedule, you need to try it out first on the same species of wood, prepped in the same manner as the final product. This will help you avoid surprises and possibly disaster after you've put all the work into cutting and making the piece. Don't rush the final steps, even though you are anxious to see it done.

Good luck! Sorry for the long post, hope it helps.

[VB...]

Originally Posted by Bill Wilson

As usual there are many ways to skin the proverbial cat, but here are a few of my suggestions.

Bill thank you very much.

I am currently working on a jewelry box that will have a bit of scrolling detail on it. The outside will be Scrolled Cherry. Fairly thin and I thought it would look nice with a wet look. Thats why I was thinking Poly. But I have heard that other solutions such as Shellac leave a great finish but may need maintenance down the line.

I don't know yet what to use and how the finished product will look. Since there will be a bit of scrolling I think I need to spray it on. I have never sprayed Shellac so not sure yet what's involved.

I bought BLO with the intention of using it. But when I started reading on the net all the negative feedback it quickly turned me off.

They said it was toxic. That its gets sticky very quickly and very hard to take off.

I'm definitly going to try a bunch of test pieces and see what works best for me.

Bill, how do I create that dark red mahagony like look with Cherry?

Thank you very much,
VB...

[Sandy Oaks]

The Guitar Mini Clock that I posted is made of cherry. I soaked it in Tung Oil Finish for 5 minutes and wipped dry. After a day, I sprayed with Polyurethane Clear Satin (3 coats). It has a rich dark color and nice sheen.

[Bill Wilson]

Addressing a few of your comments/questions;

I don't think shellac necessarily needs any more maintenance than any other finish. You do have to be a bit more careful about what comes in contact with it. Any alcohol based products can damage it as alcohol is the solvent for shellac. It can develop white spots when in contact with water and it is sensitive to heat. These points make it a poor choice for table tops and bars, but still excellent for most other ww'ing projects. Shellac scratches more easily than varnish, poly or lacquer, but is much easier to fix.

You can get shellac in rattle cans at Lowes or HD. It's an easy way to get introduced to spraying shellac, if you don't have the equipment. That's how I started and I have since bought a couple cheap spray guns and have had pretty good results. It dries very fast and is extremely easy to clean up. It has to be nearly idiot proof if I can spray it successfully.

BLO isn't really a great stand alone finish. It compliments other products when used under a topcoat on darker woods. It is also a common ingredient in finishes commonly called Danish Oil, Antique Oil or Tung Oil. Basically all these products are is a simple mix of varnish, BLO and mineral spirits in roughly equal proportions. Nothing fancy there.

As for getting that dark, rich red look on cherry, an oil based finish will get you there the quickest. Time and UV light do the rest. You can set your lumber out in the sun for a couple days to begin the natural darkening process, but it will happen on it's own, eventually. Make sure it is laying flat, in full exposure to the sun and that nothing casts shadows across the boards. Even if you choose a non-oil based finish, it would still darken naturally, may just take longer.

If you are willing to try spraying, I suggest first to wipe on or dip it in BLO. Let it soak for a few minutes, wipe it dry and then blow the excess out of the frets. Let it dry for a few days, then spray on shellac. I would probably use a blonde (clear) shellac as darker grades might muddy the color a bit, at least at first. I don't recall what type of shellac comes in the rattle cans. It may be clear, but I haven't used it for a while, and I can't remember.

Again, I can't emphasize enough to test any finish you want to try on scraps first.

<edit to add>

If you want to read some good articles on finishing, check out this site;


<edit to add>

Sorry, don't think that link works anymore. I'll try to find a better one.

http://www.homesteadfinishingproduct...s/articles.htm

[VB...]

Originally Posted by Sandy Oaks

The Guitar Mini Clock that I posted is made of cherry. I soaked it in Tung Oil Finish for 5 minutes and wipped dry. After a day, I sprayed with Polyurethane Clear Satin (3 coats). It has a rich dark color and nice sheen.

Originally Posted by Bill Wilson

Addressing a few of your comments/questions;

I don't think shellac necessarily needs any more maintenance than any other finish.

Thank you both for taking the time to explain.
I always have more questions so one or two additional:

I have a 6gallon compressor with a large aluminum bottle sprayer. I can probably use shellac in it but not Poly?

How do you clean Poly out of your gun and bottle?

Which spray guns and bottles would you recommend?

Thank you gentlmen again for taking the time to explain.
VB...

[Bill Wilson]

I'm far from an authority on spraying. I would suggest finding a couple books and reading up on the subject just to see what all is involved. My spraying experience and knowledge is pretty limited, but I can tell you what has worked for me.

I have a 25 gal compressor. Not sure what the CFM output is on it, but I would suspect that your 6 gal unit may be a bit undersized for spraying. It takes a good bit of air to do much spraying.

I have two guns. One is a small, detail, HVLP gun from Grizzly. I use it for spraying small items like Christmas ornaments. It has a .8mm orifice, so it can only spray fairly thin material. I recently purchased a Husky HVLP gun from Home Depot. It has a 1.4mm orifice, IIRC. I've used it a couple times for larger items and have been pretty satisfied with the results. Neither of these guns were very expensive, I want to say the detail gun was around $20 and the larger one was less than $50, can't remember for sure. There are all sorts of products and options out there for spraying.
I've only ever sprayed shellac out of either of these guns. I wouldn't mind tryng other materials, but so far the shellac has fit my needs and cleans up so easily that I haven't had reason to.

[unixpro]

Like Bill has said, the real secret to getting the ultra smooth finish you're apparently looking for is to slowly build the finish up. You can't rush a thing like that. Do a coat, wait for it to dry, rub it with high-grit sandpaper or (my preference) 0000 steel wool and apply another. I usually do at least 4 coats if I'm looking for that kind of a finish.

My preference, for a job like this, is Deft, not shellac. Deft is a lacquer and is harder than shellac. I get the spray can of Deft and apply that over a BLO or Danish Oil base finish. I do 3 applications of the oil, then wait at least 72 hours for that to fully cure, then apply at least 4 coats of Deft, rubbing between.

A finish like this is something you reserve for your most important pieces. It takes a fair amount of time and effort to create, but it's worth the effort in the end.