Blade cutting my throat

[Suz]

I bought a 1800 scroll saw the other day, and am somewhat disappointed, and it will likely be returned and buy another brand if this cannot be corrected:

The blade cuts into the throat plate. I have tried straight blades, pin blades, sprial, crown, reverse, skip and various sizes (with those supplied with the saw) on the same piece of wood (pine). I have tensioned and re-tensioned...loosening and tightening. Nothing works. I start pushing and the blade bends back. If I stop, the wood doesn't cut, if I push hard enough to feed the blade goes into the throat plate.

Like I said, I played with tension and if I add more, the blade pulls out, after checking to make sure it is seated properly.

What's the deal??

Suz

[Minnesota scroller]

Hi Suz. Welcome aboard. Before getting too frustrated, call Dremel. Their customer service is excellent. I have a Dremel 1680 and when I bought it used, I had a concern and called them and they were very helpful. You may have got a dud, but at least if you call them first, you'll know for sure. Good luck.

BTW, what part of Iowa do you reside? We just met a super couple from Iowa while vacationing in Duluth this week. We even joined them on a fishing charter and had a great time.

[Suz]

Hi Mike,

I sent Dremel an email, but no response yet. I hate to use the phone, but I will give them a call. BTW, what brand of blades are you using??

I live in Ankeny, which is a suburb of Des Moines, the capital and the central part of the state. Where were they from??

I almost went on a fishing charter in Minnesota. You guys have some good fishing!!

Suz

[Minnesota scroller]

I've used Olson, Pegas and FD blades. These are 3 top quality brands. Everyone prefers something different. You really can't go wrong with any of these. It's best to try a few from each company and decide yourself which you prefer. Here is a great chart regarding blade usage. Blade Use Just scroll down a little to blade usage.pdf that Bob put in this thread.

Dremel is located in Racine, WI. Here is a link to their customer service page.
http://www.dremel.com/en-US/customer-service/
A phone call to tech support is the easiest thing to do. Like I said, I called once and got someone knowledgable right away. They are one of the best for customer service.

[Suz]

I will give them a call. Thanks for the info. I would hate to have to return it, as I like it otherwise. Of course, I am brand new to scrolling...so what do I know.


Set the hook,

Suz

[workin for wood]

Seems to me that any saw can cut the throat plate. There really isn't that much room, and nor should there be. Mostly it is caused by not having enough tension, and that is coupled up with the user pushing sideways on the blade at the same time. I know nothing about the dremel, so I can't tell you how to apply more tension. Once you do know how, at least you can make yourself a new throat plate with your scroll saw, assuming your old one is an insert. It takes practice to train yourself to turn the wood, not the blade. The blade is the center fulcrum point. Don't push to hard feeding the wood, let the blade cut the wood. Every few second or so, relax your hands on the wood and you will see if you are pushing too much in any direction because the blade will want to go back to a straight up and down position which will move your wood in doing so. Not sure you follow that, but think of this. Push the blade to the right with your finger. When you let go, the blade automatically bounces back to the left. So if the blade was inside a piece of wood and you were accidently pushing sideways to the right, the blade would push the wood back to the left if you let go of the wood. Most often when the blade will bow is during a tight turn, and that is the time when you are most likely pushing on the side of the blade, instead of turning correctly. So...keep practicing with the old plate and don't worry about the damage, and when you feel more confident in your skills, buy or make a new throat plate.

[GrayBeard Phil]

Suz:

Forgive me, but I want to cover the basics with you.

The blade's teeth goes to the front of the saw, which is toward you.

The teeth are to be pointed down, to the ground.

(this is for standard blades, it does not apply to spiral, or round blades.)
You can test this by using one of your finger tips, with the saw off! lightly touch the blade where it is closest to you, and very lightly rub your finger tip up down about 1/2 inch. You should feel a slight resistance as you move your finger tip up (caused by the teeth of the blade) and very little resistance as you move it down. The blade should not cut, or break your skin, if you touch the blade light enough.

Under no condition that I know of should your blade cause you to cut the throat plate behind the blade as a beginner. Be aware: most scroll saw blades are not made to, or cannot, cut metal. Most scroll saw blades for woodworking I know of will be destroyed by touching the metal throat plate while the saw is ruining and will need to be replaced. Blades are cheap, and are replaced often. Some only last 20 or 30 minutes of heavy use when just cutting wood.

Remember, as previously posted, the blade should not be deflected front to back, well at least not a noticeable difference. The blade cuts the wood, not your pressure to move the wood past the blade. The blade should move up and down with no deflection left, right or backwards. Slow down if it being deflected. As a beginner, your feed rate of the wood should be about 1 inch every 2 or 3 seconds. As you gain skill, you will be able to go faster.

Phil

[workin for wood]

Actually, a wood blade will cut some metals. Grab a chunk of aluminum and you can cut it all day long with wood blades. The table on my Hawk is aluminum and I have a few spots where I have nicked out some of the table. My old sears has a removable throat plate, the table is cast iron, but the throat plate is aluminum and has tons of cuts in it. The old sears has no tensioner, so it's real easy to bow the blade into the plate. A wood blade will also cut copper, although not as easily as aluminum. Test that out with a pre-1982 penny, but be sure and use a jig because the penny is small and will get really hot really fast. I use aluminum occasionally to make jigs and I cut it on the tablesaw with a regular blade, and you can turn it on a lathe with regular HSS chisels. The wood blade won't cut steel, but it will scratch it and eventually over a long period of time you can get little cut marks into it. I believe tension is the real key factor. Too much tension and the blade snaps like a guitar string, too little and the blade bows out and touches the throat plate. My point though, is that the throat plate is not defective, and if it is aluminum it will be cut without the blade breaking.

[GrayBeard Phil]

Jeff:

I concede to your personal experience.

My experience was back about 5 years ago, and the metal throat plate in my old Delta was steel. The plate just cleaned off the teeth of the blade when I applied too much sideways pressure. To be sure, the blade was hot from cutting plywood. The blade was purchased at my local hardware store, not a premium brand. Since I moved up to premium blades, never tried to cut metal with a FD, Pegus, or Olsen woodworking blades.

If fact I am scared about saw dust and hot metal chips since I don't think they play well together.

But hook angle, gullet depth, teeth hardness, and heat dissipation all make me believe one should not use wood cutting blades on metal. But if your personal experince says it can be done, I will concede the point.

But I don't know the reason for SUZ to be cutting metal at the back of the throat, and not cutting wood in the front. I think the blade has lost it's teeth or is not installed correctly. Cannot imagine a tensioned blade being rotated 180 degrees during a cut, pushed to the rear enough to contact the throat plate, and not breaking. If she claimed the throat was being cut on the left or right side... well a different story to be sure.

Phil

[Suz]

Guys,

Actually my throat plate is plastic, and I should have been more clear. The blade is burning (melting) holes in the plate due to the friction when cutting wood.

I am studious and did study my owner's manual prior to even plugging the machine in. I also read the instructions on the blade packages (and re-read and re-read them both) when I continued to have the problem. I always assume operator error.

Now, with that being said, I was basing my haivng enough tension on the blades on the fact I could no longer turn the tension knobs on the blade seats. When I would fire the saw up, I either cut the throat plate, or my blade popped loose before I could even start.

I did experiment, and used pliers to turn the tension knobs more. Mind you, I am not a "wussy" girl and can usually finger tighten things. Tightening with the pliers made me really nervous. However, I am using a 5R, and so far so good with pine. I will try this with another blade and wood when I get a chance.

Is it possible that one would tighten the knobs with pliers?